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gerdesj 5 hours ago

An LLM is a tool and its just as mad as slide rules, calculators and PCs (I've seen them all although slide rules were being phased out in my youth)

Coding via prompt is simply a new form of coding.

Remember that high level programming languages are "merely" a sop for us humans to avoid low level languages. The idea is that you will be more productive with say Python than you would with ASM or twiddling electrical switches that correspond to register inputs.

A purist might note that using Python is not sufficiently close to the bare metal to be really productive.

My recommendation would be to encourage the tutor to ask the student how they use the LLM and to school them in effective use strategies - that will involve problem definition and formulation and then an iterative effort to solve the problem. It will obviously involve how to spot and deal with hallucinations. They'll need to start discovering model quality for differing tasks and all sorts of things that look like sci-fi to me 10 years ago.

I think we are at, for LLMs, the "calculator on digital wrist watch" stage that we had in the mid '80s before the really decent scientific calculators rocked up. Those calculators are largely still what you get nowadays too and I suspect that LLMs will settle into a similar role.

They will be great tools when used appropriately but they will not run the world or if they do, not for very long - bye!

Krssst 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Remember that high level programming languages are "merely" a sop for us humans to avoid low level languages.

High-level languages are deterministic and reliable, making it possible for developers to be confident that their high-level code is correct. LLMs are anything but deterministic and reliable.

tvshtr 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Not all code written by humans is deterministic and reliable. And properly guard-railed LLM can check its output, you can even employ several, for higher consensus certainty. And we're just fuckin starting.

Krssst 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Unreliable code is incorrect thus undesirable. We limit the risk through review and understanding what we're doing which is not possible when delegating the code generation and review.

Checking output can be done by testing but test code in itself can be unreliable and testing in itself is no correctness guarantee.

The only way reliable code could be produced without human touching it would be using formal specifications, having the LLM write the formal proof at the same time as the code and using some software to validate the proof. The formal specification would have to be written using some kind of programming language, and then we're somewhat back to square one (but with maybe a new higher level language where you only define the specs formally rather than how you implement them).

seanmcdirmid an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You keep saying this but have you used an LLM for coding before? You just don’t vibe code up some generated code (well, you can, but it will suck). You are asking it to iterate on code and multiple artifacts at the same time (like tests) in many steps, and you are providing feedback, getting feedback, providing clarifications, checking small chunks of work (because you didn’t just have it do everything at once), etc. You just aren’t executing “vibecode -d [do the thing]” like you would with a traditional shoot once code generator

ethmarks 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> My recommendation would be to encourage the tutor to ask the student how they use the LLM and to school them in effective use strategies

It's obviously not quite the same as programming, but my English professor assigned an essay a few weeks ago where we had to ask ChatGPT a question and then analyze its response, check its sources, and try to spot hallucinations. It was worth about 5% of our overall grade. I thought that it was a fascinating exercise in teaching responsible LLM use.

galaxyLogic 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But, we as humans still have a need to understand the outputs of AI. We can't delegate this understanding task to AI because then we wouldn't understand AI and thus we could not CONTROL what the AI is doing, optimize its behavior so it maximizes our benefit.

Therefore, I still see a need for highlevel and even higher level languages, but ones which are easy for humans to understand. AI can help of course but challenge is how can we unambiguously communicate with machines, and express our ideas concisely and understandably for both us and for the machines.

JumpCrisscross 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> My recommendation would be to encourage the tutor to ask the student how they use the LLM and to school them in effective use strategies

This reminds me of folks teaching their kids Java ten years ago.

You’re teaching a tool. Versus general tool use.

> Those calculators are largely still what you get nowadays too and I suspect that LLMs will settle into a similar role

If correct, the child will be competent in the new world. If not, they will have wasted time developing general intelligence.

This doesn’t strike me as a good strategy for anything other than time-consuming babysitting.

mgraczyk 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree they are great tools, but they will increasingly do more of the work and will rapidly do almost all work a software engineer currently does, I'd say within 5 years with near certainty but possibly within 1-2

intended 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Calculators dont make you forget math.

bgwalter 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Coding via prompt is simply a new form of coding.

No, it isn't. "Write me a parser for language X" is like pressing a button on a photocopier. The LLM steals content from open source creators.

Now the desperate capital starved VC companies can downvote this one too, but be aware that no one outside of this site believes the illusion any longer.

bdangubic 3 hours ago | parent [-]

there isn’t a company in the united states of 50 or more people which doesn’t have daily/weekly/monthly “ai” meetings (I’ve been attending dozens this year, as recently as tuesday). comments like yours exist only on HN where selected group of people love talking about bubbles and illusions while the rest of us are getting sh*t done at pace we could not fathom just year or so ago…

bgwalter 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I am sure that "AI" is great for generating new meetings and for creating documentation how valuable those meetings are. Also it is great at generating justifications for projects and how it speeds up those projects.

I am sure that the 360° performance reviews have never looked better.

Your experience is contradicted by the usually business friendly Economist:

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2025/11/26/i...

bdangubic 3 hours ago | parent [-]

this is same as polling data when Trump is running - no one wants to admit they will vote for DJT much like no one wants to admit these days that “AI” is doing (lots of) their work :)

jokes aside I do trust economist’s heart is in the right place but misguided IMO. “the investors” (much like many here on HN) expected “AI” to be magic thing and are dealing with some disappointment that most of us are still employed. the next stage of “investor sentiment” just may be “shoot, not magic but productivity is through the roof”

sarchertech 2 hours ago | parent [-]

>productivity is through the roof

Where are the hard numbers? Number of games on Steam, new GitHub projects, new products released, GDP growth—anything.

bdangubic an hour ago | parent [-]

the numbers I could provide you are just what I have been involved with and we are 2.5/3.0x points-wise from 16 months ago. my team decided to actually measure productivity gains so we kept the estimation process the same (i.e. if we AI-automated something we still estimate as if we have to do it manually). we are about to stop this on Jan 1

since you referenced a trusted Economist here’s much-more-we-know-what-we-are-talking-about MIT saying 12% of workforce is replaceable by AI (I think this is too low) - https://iceberg.mit.edu/