Remix.run Logo
isodev 16 hours ago

> - Extremely personal data on users - Novel way of introducing and learning more about sponsored products

Doesn’t anyone think this is really, really bad idea? We managed to radicalise people into the rise and fall of entire countries through analog ads, can you imagine how devastating it would be to infuse every digital product with all that?

bxguff 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

this was the goal the entire time, and they had the nerve to cynically call themselves a non-profit.

edoceo 16 hours ago | parent [-]

That was just to set the trap. Start off with a trustable label, then rugpull.

big-and-small 13 hours ago | parent [-]

Also appeal to investors. Nobody would give tons of money to upstart which goal is to generate text porn, generated TikTok slop and make some needy teens suicide just to compete with Google Ads.

Selling big AGI dream that will literally make winner take it all is much more desirable.

DrewADesign 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You know, I thought stories of law enforcement and the military targeting people using commercially collected data, effectively skirting the sanity boundaries we applied to surveillance, would raise a little bit of awareness in the US. It didn’t. Then when the political scene got really into deliberately targeting political opposition, I thought that might raise more eyebrows about all of this data being out there, but it didn’t. Same with ICE and border patrol. I think the risk and mechanisms will remain too abstract for people to grasp until they’re one of the unlucky people staring down the barrel of a gun because they, or someone they were associated with, had the wrong opinions.

voakbasda 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This has echos of “First They Came” [0]. The current status quo begs a question that must have been asked in the time it was written: at what point does it have become morally acceptable for citizens to rise up and overthrow a violent government?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came?wprov=sfti1#

mindslight 15 hours ago | parent [-]

The current dynamic IS based on the new gestapo thinking they're "rising up and overthrowing a violent government", due to a propaganda bubble thirty years in the making. Where do you think "ICE" is getting all of these new recruits from? The red state militias that have been seething about the slow creep of bureaucratic authoritarianism, now deputized and told they get to use their weapons to attack the other tribe. Which is also why said militias are silent now that it's actually time to defend our country from fascists - they are the fascists. Propaganda is a hell of a drug.

isodev 14 hours ago | parent [-]

So we agree, we shouldn't let AI companies mix their products with government or ad-inspired insights, right?

mindslight 14 hours ago | parent [-]

You seem to be stating this like I said something that might imply otherwise, but I can't figure it out even seeing you've got the GGGP comment. This thread kind of went off on a tangent that isn't directly addressing your original point.

But to hopefully answer your question - yes I'm in favor of wholesale importing the GDPR as-written into US law and letting the courts sort it out (sidestepping the corruption^Wlobbying process wherein corpos would make "small" edits that effectively gimp it with loopholes). I'm also in favor of antitrust enforcement against companies that anticompetitively bundle software with hardware and/or services - ie people should be able to choose software which doesn't have ads, rather than being coerced by the pressure of network effects. And if neither if those were enough to stamp out the consumer surveillance industry (aka "Big Tech") as we know it, then I'd support directly banning personalized advertising.

(I would support directly curtailing government from abusing commercial surveillance databases as well, but I don't see a straightforward meta-way to prevent that besides drastically shrinking the commercial databases to begin with)

raw_anon_1111 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s not that they don’t care - the current administration is targeting people that they specifically don’t like.

And Trump has a cult of personality where many Republican politicians are literally afraid for their lives if they stand against him because they get death threats.

Romney said other Republican politicians won’t stand against Trump because they can’t afford security like he can. Majorie Green Taylor said her family has started getting death threats and the Indiana legislators who were first opposed to redistricting are now holding a vote because they also got death threats

3 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
aurareturn 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No, I don't think it's really bad. Most of the world doesn't care. Only in a small tech niche on the internet do they care a lot.

isodev 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Are you sure? Because most of the world also doesn’t know how “this cloud thing” works…

I think we need global, EU style consumer and data protection constraints before stepping into LLM-powered ads through personal assistants.

LastTrain 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I just got back from Thanksgiving holiday with my family. Grade schools kids all the way up to great grandparents up to 81 years old. Engineers, active military, a nurse, high schoolers, two in college. Both coasts represented and Texas. Republicans, Democrats, and in-between. The one and only thing every single person had in common was an utter hatred of AI. And it wasn’t for a lack of understanding of how it will be used.

fn-mote 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Hatred of AI won’t stop others from steamrolling them and their jobs using AI.

At this point, I have stopped hoping that LLMs will become vaporware.

LastTrain 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I found myself thinking AI would make the perfect scapegoat for an enterprising political party. There is a lot of animus to tap into there.

lII1lIlI11ll 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I wouldn't bet on LLMs steamrolling jobs of a nurse or military personnel any time soon.

LastTrain 13 hours ago | parent [-]

There are so many more reasons to hate AI than just “it is taking my job”. But even if we’re just sticking to that, some people don’t like that it will replace their co workers, neighbors or family members job.

senordevnyc 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How do you reconcile this with:

1. The absolute explosion of AI usage (revealed preferences)

2. The polling on AI, which is mixed and reveals lots of pessimism and fear among a slight majority of Americans, but hardly universal “utter hatred”.

My guess is some combo of: your family is not representative, the hatred was not as universal as it appeared (bandwagon effect), or your own hatred of AI caused you to focus on the like-minded opinions shared and ignore any contrary evidence.

LastTrain 8 hours ago | parent [-]

I don’t reconcile it, I was giving an anecdote, one that would seem to easily fit in with your personal summary of some poll you read about.

footy 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

most of the world not caring doesn't mean it's not bad.

array_key_first 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The part of the world who have experienced genocide because of Meta and their ad model cares.

glenstein 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Doesn’t anyone think this is really, really bad idea?

I mean I do. And you do. Probably a lot of people in this thread. I felt that way about Netflix doing it, but they did and the world just moved on.

I think you're right that these ads will be, in a sense, worse, but not by the metrics that matter to OpenAI.

anonymouskimmer 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Netflix has proprietary content among the licensed content.

raw_anon_1111 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Netflix never introduced ads in the ad free service. They introduced a new lower tier price with ads that if you were an existing customer, you were none the wiser.

glenstein 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> They introduced a new lower tier price with ads that if you were an existing customer, you were none the wiser.

You're right that I didn't experience them myself, but my data here are (1) Netflix evidently getting a lot of takers and making a lot of money from people using this new with ads tier, and (2) the lack of any sustained negative outcry against Netflix after the first news cycle or two.

So I'm intending to rely on that rather than my own experience. OpenAI has any number of permutations of ways to include ads, including a Netflix style cheaper paid tier, so I don't necessarily think a distinction holds on that basis, though you may be right in the end: it's more intuitive to think OpenAI would put them in the free version. Though it's possible the Netflix example is teachable in this case regardless.

marcosdumay 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And then increased prices so that the ad-based one is close to what the ad-free one was 2 years earlier.

But yeah, they didn't migrate existing customers and kept the no-ads option. Those are relevant.

raw_anon_1111 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Unlike Amazon Prime Video…

isodev 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> about Netflix doing it, but they did and the world just moved on

I think the main challenge here is that Netflix works around one of many ways to access entertainment. So if one service starts to show recommendations in that limited context of user data they collect - it's still has negative potentials but it's easier to regulate and there are alternatives.

In the case of LLMs, we have service that are aiming to replace both the browser and the search engine. This means ending up in a situation where your entire access to knowledge and the world takes place via "AI". And the result is: ad-infused, tweaked to align with investor priorities, censored by the current politics of wherever the company is based service machinery that's constantly extracting personal information so it can learn better ways to refocus its priorities. I've read and seen a lot of sci-fi and dystopian history novels (actually read, not LLM-summarized for me) to know this is a very end-game kind of situation.

resfirestar 3 hours ago | parent [-]

>In the case of LLMs, we have service that are aiming to replace both the browser and the search engine

Most people already experience the internet as an integrated browser+search engine (and often, OS) experience from a single advertising company, Google, and it has been this way for over a decade.

>And the result is: ad-infused, tweaked to align with investor priorities, censored by the current politics of wherever the company is based service machinery that's constantly extracting personal information so it can learn better ways to refocus its priorities.

Exactly.

This is not to say I like this outcome, but how is it not massive hyperbole to invoke apocalyptic sci-fi? I expect we'll plod along much as before: some people fiercely guarding their personal info, some people taking a "privacy is dead anyway" approach, most people seeing personal computers as a means to some particular ends (scrolling social feeds and watching Netflix) that are incompatible with thinking too hard about the privacy and information environment implications.

anonymouskimmer 40 minutes ago | parent [-]

Apocalyptic scifi isn't the same as dystopian scifi. Some of the billionaires backing AI literally have dystopian scifi as a goal, they just intend to do it better so that it doesn't seem so bad.

I only connect my smartphone to data about three or four times a year, and then only to update some apps or check on an internet outage. It is becoming more difficult to do this as the alternatives to a connected smartphone disappear. The same will become true with the rest of personal info (such as biometrics). More and more the only alternatives will be your latter two.

tomaskafka 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That’s how I read it, I’m surprised it would be meant as a positive (except for investors)

idle_zealot 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's one of the major issues of our era. Either society will be utterly captured, gradually and quietly, or there will be a reconning and ads will become tightly regulated along the lines of tobacco, sectioned off from polite society.

I consider the latter unlikely.