| ▲ | Don't tug on that, you never know what it might be attached to (2016)(blog.plover.com) |
| 91 points by todsacerdoti 6 hours ago | 26 comments |
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| ▲ | kace91 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| (Let me start clarifying that this is not at all a criticism of the author) I am usually amused by the way really competent people judge other's context. This post assumes understanding of: - emacs (what it is, and terminology like buffers) - strace - linux directories and "everything is a file" - environment variables - grep and similar - what git is - the fact that 'git whatever' works to run a custom script if git-whatever exists in the path (this one was a TIL for me!) - irc - CVEs - dynamic loaders - file priviledges but then feels important to explain to the audience that: >A socket is a facility that enables interprocess communication |
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| ▲ | derefr 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | All of the things you listed are ops topics. But sockets are a programming concept. I would expect a person with 10+ years of Unix sysadmin experience — but who has never programmed directly against any OS APIs, “merely” scripting together invocations of userland CLI tools — to have exactly this kind of lopsided knowledge. (And that pattern is more common than you might think; if you remember installing early SuSE or Slackware on a random beige box, it probably applies to you!) | |
| ▲ | hakunin 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As a blogger who makes similar assumptions, I think we depend on how a lot of us from that time "grew up" similarly. Sockets came to relevance later in my career compared to everything else listed here. | | |
| ▲ | kace91 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | That might be part of it, yes. As someone younger, ports and sockets appeared very early in my learning. I'd say they appeared in passing before programming even, as we had to deal with router issues to get some online games or p2p programs to work. And conversely, some of the other topics are in the 'completely optional' category. Many of my colleagues work on IDEs from the start, and some may not even have used git in its command line form at all, though I think that extreme is more rare. |
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| ▲ | goranmoomin 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I haven't even realized that while I was reading the article, but it is amusing! Though one explanation is that I think for the other stuff that the writer doesn't explain, one can just guess and be half right, and even if the reader guesses wrong, isn't critical to the bug — but sockets and capabilities are the concepts that are required to understand the post. It still is amusing and I wouldn't have even realized that until you pointed that out. | |
| ▲ | dwedge 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I found it interesting that they know how to use strace, but not how to list open files held by a process which to me seems simpler. Again, not criticism just an observation and I enjoyed the article | | |
| ▲ | parliament32 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Given the "(hi Julia!)" immediately after the strace shenanigans, I interpreted this as a third-party hint; the author most likely had not used strace before. The author is both an example of and an example for how we can get caught in "bubbles" of tools/things we know and use and don't, and blog posts like this are great for discovery (I didn't know about git invoking a binary in the path like his "git re-edit", for example, until today). |
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| ▲ | mr_toad an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Most people these days are using http and don’t need to touch sockets. (Except for the people implementing http of course). | |
| ▲ | kragen an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | To be fair, it does link the CVE, so if you don't know what a CVE is, you can click the link. I agree that it's amusing. | |
| ▲ | addled 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean, the title is a quote from Buckaroo Banzai. Lack of context is part of the fun! |
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| ▲ | svat 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| (2016) Also, “direct” link: https://blog.plover.com/tech/tmpdir.html (This doesn't really matter, as the posted link is to https://blog.plover.com/2016/07/01/#tmpdir i.e. the blog post named “tmpdir” posted on 2016-07-01 and there is only post posted on that date, so the content of the page is basically the same.) |
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| ▲ | jcynix 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| BTW, the author "mjd" is the author of the excellent book "Higher-Order Perl" which is available online at https://hop.perl.plover.com/book/ |
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| ▲ | pinkmuffinere 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I love mjd! He once replied to me on an HN thread and it lives forever in my memory :) | | |
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| ▲ | adrianmonk 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > This computer stuff is amazingly complicated. I don't know how anyone gets anything done. I wonder what could be done to make this type of problem less hidden and easier to diagnose. The one thing that comes to mind is to have the loader fail fast. For security reasons, the loader needs to ensure TMPDIR isn't set. Right now it accomplishes this by un-setting TMPDIR, which leads to silent failures. Instead, it could check if TMPDIR is set, and if so, give a fatal error. This would force you to unset TMPDIR yourself before you run a privileged program, which would be tedious, but at least you'd know it was happening because you'd be the one doing it. (To be clear, I'm not proposing actually doing this. It would break compatibility. It's just interesting to think about alternative designs.) |
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| ▲ | tetha an hour ago | parent [-] | | Mh, I am starting to dislike this kind of hyper-configurability. I know when this was necessary and used it myself quite a bit. But today, couldn't we just open up a mount namespace and bind-mount something else to /tmp, like SystemDs private tempdirs? (Which broke a lot of assumptions about tmpdirs and caused a bit of ruckus, but on the other hand, I see their point by now) I'm honestly starting to wonder about a lot of these really weird, prickly and fragile environment variables which cause security vulnerabilities, if low-overhead virtualization and namespacing/containers are available. This would also raise the security floor. |
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| ▲ | markstos 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| And this was written 10 years ago, when computers were far less complicated and vibe coding sleeper bugs wasn't a thing. |
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| ▲ | WJW 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Vibe coded sleeper bugs have always been a thing, they just came from the bosses' nephew who was still learning PHP at the time and left several years ago. Also, computers in 2015 were not meaningfully less complex than today. Certainly not when the topic is weird emacs and perl interactions. | | |
| ▲ | marcosdumay 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Even if the topic was web applications (that are where Big Complexity thrives), 2015 was about peak complexity. Things have improved a bit since then. | |
| ▲ | add-sub-mul-div 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The problem isn't that AI is doing something new, we all know that it isn't. The problem is that the boss' nephew is becoming the rule now rather than the exception. | | |
| ▲ | jama211 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | It also makes bugs easier to find and resolve. You win some you lose some. Perhaps by the time it is the rule they’ll be better at writing safer code. |
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| ▲ | detourdog 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | From my perspective vibe coding was always a thing. |
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| ▲ | linsomniac 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The Internet needs more Buckaroo Banzai references. Because wherever you go, there you are. |
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| ▲ | neilk 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yup. I nearly had this movie memorized when I was a child. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWXuDNmO7j8 Peter Weller, playing Buckaroo Banzai, is late for his military-particle-physics-interdimensional-jet-car test because he's helping Jeff Goldblum's character with neurosurgery. Later that day he will go play lead guitar in an ensemble. Scriptwriting gurus advise that your protagonist should have flaws and character progression. The writers of this movie disagree. |
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| ▲ | thayne 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Setting a capability on the perl executable seems like a very bad idea. That effectively grants tha capability to everything that is able to invoke perl (without being restricted to NO_NEW_PRIVILEGES). |
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| ▲ | LordGrey 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Buckaroo Banzai: You can check your anatomy all you want, and even though there may be normal variation, when it comes right down to it, this far inside the head it all looks the same. No, no, no, don’t tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to. |