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Show HN: Glasses to detect smart-glasses that have cameras(github.com)
135 points by nullpxl 3 hours ago | 42 comments

Hi! Recently smart-glasses with cameras like the Meta Ray-bans seem to be getting more popular. As does some people's desire to remove/cover up the recording indicator LED. I wanted to see if there's a way to detect when people are recording with these types of glasses, so a little bit ago I started working this project. I've hit a little bit of a wall though so I'm very much open to ideas!

I've written a bunch more on the link (+photos are there), but essentially this uses 2 fingerprinting approaches: - retro-reflectivity of the camera sensor by looking at IR reflections. mixed results here. - wireless traffic (primarily BLE, also looking into BTC and wifi)

For the latter, I'm currently just using an ESP32, and I can consistently detect when the Meta Raybans are 1) pairing, 2) first powered on, 3) (less consistently) when they're taken out of the charging case. When they do detect something, it plays a little jingle next to your ear.

Ideally I want to be able to detect them when they're in use, and not just at boot. I've come across the nRF52840, which seems like it can follow directed BLE traffic beyond the initial broadcast, but from my understanding it would still need to catch the first CONNECT_REQ event regardless. On the bluetooth classic side of things, all the hardware looks really expensive! Any ideas are appreciated. Thanks!

dotancohen 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Interesting idea. It seems to me that most things which would need to be protected from hidden cameras would be stationary and not require the operator to mount the detectors on his body, but starting with mobile constraints is often helpful.

I would like to draw attention to this gem of wit, easily the best I've seen in a long time:

> I think the idea behind this approach is sound (actually it's light)

arionmiles an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Isn't the biggest mobile use case where you don't want to be secretly recorded in public? This was a big concern with the original Google Glass.

littlestymaar 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

The idea of being constantly monitored by a megacorp tracking all my movements wih their swarm of cameras to feed us personalized ads is utterly dystopian indeed.

But I think the only valid way yo prevent this will be legislation though, it's not a fight individuals can win on their own.

lukan 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

"But I think the only valid way yo prevent this will be legislation though, it's not a fight individuals can win on their own."

It will need both. Secretly recording in the public is already prohibited in many if not most jurisdictions, but ad far as I know, not really prosecuted.

aqme28 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I could see these being worn by walking-around security in a place where filming by the audience isn’t allowed. Super cool.

anilakar an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> most things which would need to be protected from hidden cameras would be stationary

Counter-sniper systems that scan for reflections from optics have existed for twenty years already. These are indeed meant for static operation in military bases and other fixed installations.

_ache_ an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I agree, I laugh out loud at that pun.

sspiff an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I remember seeing some celebrities in the late 00s / early 10s with IR-emitting sunglasses or accessories to flood the camera sensors of paparazzi and make it harder for photographers to get spyshots of them.

Would this approach work for these camera glasses as well, simply flooding them with so much IR spectrum light that their sensors simply can't see you anymore?

nullpxl an hour ago | parent | next [-]

One of my future ideas was to have the detection trigger turning a bunch of IR LEDs on to do just this! I've only tested it a little bit against my phone camera (with around 5 850nm LEDs), but it didn't work super well (fairly bright but not enough to be useful). It did work much better in low-light though. My guess is modern cameras have better IR-cut filters, but like I mentioned I only tested against my phone and not the Ray-bans yet.

spacedoutman 34 minutes ago | parent [-]

Have you thought about the potential eye/skin damage you would be causing with IR LEDS.

card_zero a few seconds ago | parent [-]

Potentially as much as none, because it's UV that does the damage?

michaelt 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well, there's https://www.nii.ac.jp/userimg/press_details_20121212.pdf

I think fooling facial recognition systems and CCTV-cameras-at-night is easier than fooling professional photographers. Most photograhers' cameras have IR filters, after all. And nobody's got an LED brighter than the sun.

Tarmo362 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

On this topic, is there any benefit of trying to fool facial recognition systems with these type of accessories and or wearables, would the system not just mark you as suspicious and keep an even better track of you

Of course it is a different thing if these are adopted by the masses

adzm 10 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> nobody's got an LED brighter than the sun

It's low density silly fun but I did see these folk attempt to do such a thing with entertaining results https://youtu.be/m1S1r9I6DN4

SamDc73 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I heard about similar hats being used during the Hong Kong protests, but most modern cameras filter out IR anyway. Reflective jackets tend to work much better; they basically turn you into an overexposed bright blob on camera.

zppln 7 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I was thinking about this just the other day. You're on your way to implementing your own real-life stealth meter! Very cool!

thrdbndndn 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sorry I'm still confused. Do you have a reliable way to detect if a smart glass is recording or not? I never used smart-glasses regularly, but wouldn't it be "on" all the time if one is using it, so detecting the power-on and pairing is kinda useless?

aDyslecticCrow 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

Regular pairing, advertising and control likley use Bluetooth LE for simplicity and battery life. Streaming or transferring video likley use Bluetooth classic for increased bandwidth.

These are two different protocols with different radio behaviour.

So beyond detecting the glasses themselves, which seem like the focus of the project; detecting recording is feasible at the point of transfer to a phone.

The issue is distinguishing it from any other high bandwidth Bluetooth device nearby, such as headphones.

SamDc73 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would love to actually buy a similar product (but a one that won't make you look like a Frankenstein)

DonHopkins 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

How about Elton John's windshield wiper glasses?

https://fabukmagazine.com/elton-john-glasses-in-the-frame-at...

9dev 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Does anyone work on smart glasses for blind people yet? Something with blackened glass, obviously, that uses image recognition to translate visual input into text via (headphone) audio to the wearer.

That would allow for urgent warnings (approaching a street, walking towards obstacle [say, an electric scooter or a fence]), scene descriptions on request, or help finding things in the view field. There's probably a lot more you could do with this to help improve quality of life for fully blind people.

jonners00 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

there's a lovely documentary by a blind British comedian about exactly this: https://connect.open.ac.uk/seeingintothefuture/

anonymousiam 16 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

If the top-level poster succeeds, the resulting device could possibly disable devices that allow blind people to see. This could open up another liability channel.

mcny an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Putting myself in the shoes of a qa for a second...

What is the cheapest way for me to trigger a false positive on such a detection device?

And what can we do about it?

Rinse and repeat until the cheapest cost exceeds a standard pair of smart glasses.

wowamit an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A much-needed project. Making yourself invisible to such privacy-invasive devices will be the need of the day. Of the two approaches you mentioned, blocking/jamming the specific wireless traffic would be pretty interesting, if possible.

aDyslecticCrow 29 minutes ago | parent [-]

> blocking/jamming the specific wireless traffic would be pretty interesting, if possible.

And probably highly illegal.

wowamit 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yeah, true. Implementing this would be tricky.

arionmiles an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Pretty neat idea! I love the BLE detection approach, would be pretty amazing if this works. I'll be following this with some interest!

_ache_ 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Thank you for the technical write up. I have no expertise in the BTE area but it's clear enough for me to understand.

The swap pattern is very interesting but even if it's silly, maybe experimenting with an actual camera to detect cameras may give you a good base line to what to expect from a working Rayban banner.

okincilleb an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is seriously neat. Love the name too

nullpxl an hour ago | parent [-]

Thank you! To settle a debate between me and a friend, do you think Ray-BANNED or Ban-Rays is the better name?

rendaw an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Ban-Rays. Ray-BANNED could be read to mean that you've been banned by Ray-Ban IMO, the opposite of what's happening.

louthy an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Ray-Banned is a good pun, but might bring you legal trouble. I’d go with Ban-Rays

Scramblejams an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Cool project, but I'd use the first mode to look for hidden cameras at Airbnbs!

byyoung3 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

next: smart glasses app to detect glasses that can detect smart glasses that have cameras

AmbroseBierce 34 minutes ago | parent [-]

the esp32 in the side of the head should give it away

kanak8278 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's a lovely idea.

DonHopkins 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Can they detect Agency Glasses? 8)

Wearable Eyes Turn You Into Emotional Cyborg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhvHxz1NePQ

>The device, called AgencyGlass, was developed by Dr. Hirotaka Osawa from Tsukuba University.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/wearable-eyes-agencyglass-emotiona...

d--b an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Taping over the recording indicator is illegal.

Is there any way your device can find the MAC address of the glasses through bluetooth or something and file a lawsuit automatically?

dmead an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Do you have a parts list for what's in the zuck glasses?

DonHopkins 33 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Now integrate it with ink jet technology to spray the offending camera lens like a squid!

foormanek 32 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

One more gizmo throwing IR at MY eyes? No, thanks!