| ▲ | N_Lens 5 hours ago | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Have we wrapped all the way around to <table> layouts again? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | sussmannbaka 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Yes and no. <table> layouts were a hack that solved a real problem but came with massive downsides. People didn’t tell you to not use <table> to lay out content because grids are bad (they are quite handy! take a look at Grid Systems by Josef Müller-Brockmann) but because <table> both posed technical and accessibility problems. A layout grid is not a table (or a <table >). A table (with and without <>) comes with attached semantics, hierarchy, reading direction etc. and is extremely rigid, which makes it a bad fit for differing screen sizes. It’s true that this was a blind spot for a long time and that it was frustrating to not be able to efficiently lay out content in 2D when <table> was just there. But it was the wrong choice then as it is now and it has been baseline available for 8 years now. I hope it won’t take another 8 years until the comparison stops :o) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| ▲ | dreamcompiler 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Yes. I built layouts like this with automatic server-rendered tables 25 years ago, and they just worked with very little effort. Tables weren't responsive or accessible or any of the other things we now recognize as essential, but it has certainly taken a long time to reinvent the table wheel. And all the while we've had to listen to people screaming in our ears that tables were bad, while also listening to them argue about which of their incredibly difficult and patently subpar "solutions" we were supposed to use instead. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | halapro 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
<table> was a problem because it described content, not style. There's nothing wrong with creating grids. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | joduplessis 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Was going to say this too! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | hackthemack 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I agree. I got really tired of hearing tables are for tabular data! For 20+ years. My reply was always, Who cares if it accomplished the layout you want. If the meaning of a word is what got people so hung up... why not go and make a new css term that did what tables did but improve on it. Now 20+ years later, that is pretty much what they did. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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