| ▲ | matt-p 3 hours ago |
| All public transport should be like $1. You need to charge something to keep the crackheads out, but it should not be enough that people think 'oh I better walk/cycle/drive instead to save money' |
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| ▲ | jaredklewis 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| This would happen naturally except that most US cities have made it illegal to build anything without gobs of parking attached, so car drivers like myself get a government handout. In Tokyo, parking is managed by the market, so it’s incredibly expensive. So it’s always cheaper to take public transit without artificially low public transit prices. |
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| ▲ | toast0 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Downtown any big city is accessible by car, but parking fees keep most people away. At least, I won't willingly drive to destinations inside downtown of a big city, unless it's something special that can't be managed otherwise. | | |
| ▲ | trollbridge an hour ago | parent [-] | | Which means suburban style businesses have an advantage, and eventually downtown merchants form an association and start pushing for free parking so they can get customers to show up. |
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| ▲ | o11c 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| From experience, $1 is not enough to keep out the people who spend the whole trip talking about where they want to go to jail for the winter. And $1 is already expensive enough that if the destination is within 5-10 miles, driving is cheaper if you already have a car and parking, so you are keeping that class of people out. Though really I find the main reason people don't take the bus is that there aren't enough buses (in time or space) for where/when people really want to go. This is an `m×n` problem. |
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| ▲ | PlunderBunny 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | How are you calculating driving any distance as being cheaper than $1? Surely if you factor in wear-and-tear on the car, you couldn't even get out of the driveway without eating that $1. | | |
| ▲ | o11c 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Let's say a gallon of gas costs $4 and your car gets 40 MPG. So $1 gets you 10 miles if you only consider gas (which very many people do, even if you think they shouldn't - much maintenance is imagined as time-based, and this is not entirely wrong - cars do decay even if you don't drive them, and insurance only rarely considers your odometer and only coarsely if so). Wear and tear is generally assumed to be roughly equal to gas costs on well-maintained roads, depending on a lot of varying assumptions of what to include. So, 5 miles. | | |
| ▲ | piva00 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Adding depreciation, recurring costs such as insurance, parking, perhaps even opportunity cost from capital allocated in a depreciating asset. It starts to not look that cheap. | | |
| ▲ | bombcar 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Lots of those things are relatively fixed, so it’s a “use the car today” question, not a “do I buy a Car” ideation. | |
| ▲ | HPsquared an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you already have access to a car, the marginal cost of driving an extra mile is low. |
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| ▲ | plorkyeran 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Driving 5 miles costs a lot more than $1. | | |
| ▲ | trollbridge an hour ago | parent [-] | | It really doesn't, though, especially if you've already decide to drive 10 or 20 miles for some other reason. Marginally, the cost of driving 5 miles is quite a bit less than $1. |
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| ▲ | jfengel 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Or maybe you could take serious steps for the homeless as well. |
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| ▲ | matt-p 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That would be amazing and is worth serious effort and resources. However I wonder if you could find one country that's managed to do this successfully (eradication not reduction)? It's often not really about housing and healthcare, it's about addiction, mental health, childhood trauma.. | | |
| ▲ | UtopiaPunk 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Japan is remarkably close. Cuba, also, but their economic priorities are very different. | |
| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | whatsupdog 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Dubai (actually all of UAE). Never seen 1 homeless, beggar, panhandler, crackhead or a fent zombie here. | | | |
| ▲ | bdangubic 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | every developed country on earth has solved this problem except us addiction, mental health, childhood drama… only in america would that lead to sleeping on the streets | | |
| ▲ | mitthrowaway2 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Sorry from Canada, we haven't solved it either. | | | |
| ▲ | trollbridge an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Are you saying Australia isn't developed? | |
| ▲ | ImJamal 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The UK and France have hundreds of thousands of homeless. | | |
| ▲ | vidarh 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | "Homeless" in that sense, however, are not rough sleepers (people who actually sleep outside), which would seem to be what is meant in this context. It's by no means zero, but in autum 2024, rough sleepers were estimated at less than 4700 in the UK. That might well represent and undercount, but it is certainly nowhere remotely near the people counted as homeless, who would include anyone without a permanent address, such a people e.g. sleeping at friends places on a non-permnanet basis. |
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| ▲ | nothrabannosir 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In public transport? Or are you changing the subject? |
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| ▲ | rogerrogerr 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What would happen if you had to tap a card/phone to get in to the subway system (and this was enforced, no jumping turnstiles), and then have to tap it to get out too. Then if someone is habitually in the system for a significantly longer time than it reasonably takes to travel from point A to B, deactivate their access. |
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| ▲ | filoleg 19 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > What would happen if you had to tap a card/phone to get in to the subway system (and this was enforced, no jumping turnstiles), and then have to tap it to get out too. Not sure about the "measure how long the subway rider has been in the subway system for a continuous period of time" feature, but otherwise that's how subway in Japan works. You gotta tap on your way in and out of the current system you are riding on (as there are multiple competing subway system companies running together even within a given city, often enough with their stops being near each other). Their reason for doing so is a bit different though. In NYC, your ride is a flat fee, as long as you don't exit subway, no matter where you are going. In Japan, your ride cost is determined by your actual route, as some parts of it have different rates. They actually need to know where you exited in order to calculate the final cost of your ride. | |
| ▲ | o11c 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Edge case: what if your phone does while in transit, and you can't charge it? | | |
| ▲ | edent 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | In the UK, the newer trains and tube carriages all have USB ports for charging. But, it is kind of a non issue. You are responsible for your ticket. Having a dead battery is no different to losing your paper ticket. | |
| ▲ | rogerrogerr 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | iPhone NFC will work for a while even when “dead”, not sure about the android world. But in the edge case of the edge case, security can let you out. If it becomes a pattern, they’ll note it somehow. Seems like the most important thing to do is _anything_. The current approach of doing nothing and shaming people who suggest public transport is a poor option because it’s full of druggies doesn’t seem to work. |
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| ▲ | mixmastamyk 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Tap to enter/exit is already a thing. Rarely enforced here, however. Emergency exits and all that. |
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| ▲ | tim333 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| In Portland they make the busses free in the central area but charge a bit outside that, partly to stop homeless sleeping in the busses. |
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| ▲ | drob518 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Why do we want to prevent people from walking? |
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| ▲ | tehjoker 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| why not go in the other direction and get them housing and healthcare so they can be treated like people and will also not disrupt your ride people from outside the US often think it’s a land of fabulously rich ppl and are aghast at how we treat our citizens |
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| ▲ | chairmansteve 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Easier to charge a dollar. Solve the simple problem first. Then tackle the more complex. | | | |
| ▲ | ggfdh 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > people from outside the US often think it’s a land of fabulously rich ppl and are aghast at how we treat our citizens We can have concern for residents who feel justifiably unsafe and uncomfortable on public transit as well as homeless riders. | |
| ▲ | matt-p 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm pro paying for them to get whatever housing and healthcare they need via taxes, just like everyone else. It's not like it's that simple though. Giving someone a house and a doctor will not get them off heroin on its own and may not even help them very much at all honestly. | | |
| ▲ | vidarh 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Most heroin addicts can be remarkably close to a normal functioning healthy person if they don't live in precarious conditions without access to a clean supply. The proportion of heroin addicts who would still be wrecks with healthcare that extends to prescribing what they need is miniscule. So the first problem is thinking you need to get them off heroin to be able to start dramatically helping. | |
| ▲ | undeveloper 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | it's actually highly effective for a majority of people. [1] Otherwise, what do you propose? 1: https://nlihc.org/resource/new-study-finds-providing-people-... | |
| ▲ | naikrovek 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Giving someone a house and a doctor will not get them off heroin on its own and may not even help them very much at all honestly. Giving someone a house and health care will, though. Every addict I have ever known (I’ve known many) consume drugs in order to escape something. Addressing this while also treating the user will indeed help them. Mental health care + physical health care = “health care” in my opening sentence. I don’t know what it is about people in the US, but almost all of us completely reject the idea that someone can be held down entirely by their own mind. Large amounts of people are, and those that don’t seem to understand that this is possible are often people whose own mind holds them down, but not so much that they’re homeless. People in other countries get this. We do not. I don’t understand it. |
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| ▲ | whatsupdog an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Do you really think people are homeless because of lack of housing? Have you seen what becomes of a house when homeless people are moved into one? A huge percentage of homeless are homeless by choice. | | |
| ▲ | tclancy an hour ago | parent [-] | | Hang on, in another comment you say you’re in Dubai where there aren’t any homeless. So how are you seeing this? |
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| ▲ | an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
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