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seneca 4 hours ago

[flagged]

analog31 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If a tavern puts out a sign saying "free beer," nobody needs to point out that someone is paying for the beer. There's no confusion about this.

Workaccount2 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I know this sounds cold, but the people who most utilize "free" things are the absolute least likely to understand it's not free.

Most people think the state is a machine of infinite money, and the only thing preventing $1 million checks in the mail to everyone is corporate lobbyists protecting the elite.

esrauch 3 hours ago | parent [-]

It's a completely absurd claim that "most" people think the only reason the government isn't sending million dollar checks is hoarding.

The government spending too much and the debt being large is an extremely popular talking point, at least half of everyone would say "the federal government should spend less than they do" much less million dollar checks for every person.

johnisgood 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think there is a lot of confusion about it. You overestimate people. :P I wish it was a case of me underestimating people, but after the things I saw...

bluecalm 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You are overestimating people. I've met several people with higher education who don't understand that trade-off. They see the world as a fight between good guys who want to give the society free stuff and the bad guys that want to make money out of it.

seneca 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

A tavern isn't funded by taxes. They're giving away their own money. A government doesn't have its own money, it is giving away tax payer money.

smileysteve 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's less so the taverns own money and more so that the food, wine, bar (or future visits) subsidize the beer, ie the food is taxed so that the beer is free.

Same with credit card rewards, they're not paid for by the bar, they're paid for by volume at the bar, debit/cash transactions, and the savings on cash controls, and the people that can't payoff their credit card bill.

analog31 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

An economy is not a zero sum game.

jjk166 26 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, people should be reminded that they've already been paying the government without receiving this service for years.

ollysb 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Free at the point of use is how it's usually expressed.

seneca 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Sure, but that hides most of the facts about how it works. There are a lot of parties involved in this, including people paying for it and being paid for it, and those paying probably out number those getting it for free at point of use. Sweeping that under the rug is just a sales ploy, which shows what the outlet wants you to believe about this program.

benregenspan 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I wouldn't call using the most commonly accepted (and concise) terminology a "sales ploy". If you want every service to be accompanied by a wordy explanation of how it works, then every article would need to mention that the current status quo involves complicated taxpayer subsidy in the form of dependent care FSA accounts and a host of state-level programs.

n4r9 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What else could it mean for a state-provided service to be "free"?

plorg 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Might as well complain about how we get free roads and fire services.

SV_BubbleTime 4 hours ago | parent [-]

No one has accused roads and fire services of being free.

benregenspan 4 hours ago | parent [-]

This is a good example, because a "freeway" is free at point of use, but obviously understood to not be free of construction and maintenance cost. It is called "freeway" because "free-to-drive-on highway" would be too wordy.

thunky 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

> It is called "freeway" because "free-to-drive-on highway" would be too wordy.

This is wrong. "Freeway" comes from free flow of traffic:

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/freeway.cfm

justin66 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That taxpayers pay for government programs isn't the big revelation you seem to believe it is.

baumy 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, it actually is, to many people.

Poll a random subset of people with the question "are you in favor of free childcare?". X% will say yes.

Poll another set with the question "are you in favor of taxpayer funded childcare?". Y% will say yes.

I would bet any amount of money that X>Y, and (X-Y)% of people did not think about the fact that a free government service is not actually free.

Exactly how big X and Y are, I couldn't say. But identifying propaganda and deceptive language is never something that should be discouraged, even when it's advocating for a cause you agree with.

jeromegv 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

frumplestlatz 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

We shouldn’t subsidize employers who fail to pay a living wage.

We also shouldn’t put our finger on the economic scale such that it’s impossible to afford having a family unless both parents work.

There’s no such thing as “free”, and every intervention like this has sweeping and widely unanticipated consequences.

Nevermind the question of whether it’s best for child development, for which we have plenty of evidence showing the answer is “no”.

seneca 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Me? I'm not opposed to it. I think tax-payer funded attempts to increase birthrates in our own population are a good idea. We should be doing more to encourage people to have and raise children.

I'm opposed to weasel words and intentionally misleading people about how economies and governments work. I'm also not particularly confident encouraging people to have their children raised by strangers is a good idea.

xg15 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If the tax payer was Apple, I wouldn't mind.