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robertakarobin 5 hours ago

We had/have a lot of reservations about it too, and discussed it at length with our pediatrician over months of observation. We decided what was more horrifying was hearing a 7-year-old — who has supportive family and friends, good health, no traumatic events, no major life changes going on, never worries where food/shelter is coming from — say he feels like "he shouldn't be on Earth anymore" and suddenly react with extreme physical anxiety to almost everything. It was bad enough that he couldn't really implement any of the coping skills he learned in therapy. His therapist hoped that medication would bring him to a baseline where he was able to benefit more from therapy. My family's historical success with Prozac also made the decision more palatable since depression appears to be hereditary.

There has been a phenomenal positive shift in his behavior since he started medication. All that said, another commenter pointed out that the study specifically says that Prozac is no better than placebo for depression, which is similar to but distinct from anxiety, which is what my son is being treated for. My mom and I were both diagnosed with depression, but anxiety may be more accurate -- I'm not sure.

rsyring 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You seem to be handling the naysayers pretty well. But, still wanted to compliment you for sharing and encourage you not to let them get to you.

It sounds like you made a wise decision given your personal and family history and your son is benefiting. Kudos.

Yodel0914 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I was one of those “medicating kids is a terrible idea” people, until I had kids with severe generalised anxiety. It took a lot to convince me to try it, but it made their lives better in such an obvious, immediate way. The whole experience made me a lot more humble about opinions I hold without relevant experience.

robertakarobin 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's important to remember that not being a "medicating kids is a terrible idea" person doesn't mean one is a "every medication is a great idea" person. I'm probably like most people where in a perfect world I wouldn't medicate at all, and treat unfamiliar medications with some skepticism. But also I accept that I'm not (and am not interested in being) a medical expert, so if there is a medical need that I can't handle myself I'll take the advice of a clinician who has earned my trust with good reasoning.

tempestn 38 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> The whole experience made me a lot more humble about opinions I hold without relevant experience.

I wish there were a way to shortcut this process for society so that so many people didn't need to either go through a similar experience personally to have such an epiphany, or worse, never have it at all. (Speaking not only about medication for kids, but other polarizing issues as well.)

jacobgkau 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd be more interested in where your 7-year-old even learned phrases like "I feel like I shouldn't be on Earth anymore."

robertakarobin 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, us too. Beats us. Sure wasn't around our house, and we can't imagine any family/friends/TV/whatever he may have learned it from.

5 hours ago | parent | next [-]
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pizzafeelsright 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Children are intelligent and creative and this is normal.

Children speak like this and then I correct them. I explain it isn't helpful, explain why they are blessed, how their life could be worse, and provide them alternative phrases while they explain their emotional state.

Depression is caused by laziness and anxiety by hopelessness. My kids know that they aren't permitted to be lazy or say they are bored. They don't have anxiety because they have hope despite circumstances.

konmok 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Depression is caused by laziness and anxiety by hopelessness.

I wish this were true, but its not even close. I wonder how your kids will react when they move away, and you're not around to police their emotional expression. If they're like me, they will promptly collapse into paralysis and self-destruction.

I strongly suggest that you frequently give your kids long stretches of time (months) to practice regulating themselves, without your interference.

And if they have anxiety or depression, please let them see a professional. If my parents had noticed the signs earlier, they would have saved me decades of pain.

pizzafeelsright 3 hours ago | parent [-]

At this age I am teaching emotional regulation on a daily basis.

As for when they grow up, adults who cannot manage their emotions get fired or are sent to jail. It is critical to be slow to anger, quick to forgive, and work at building strong friendships.

robertakarobin 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You imply we aren't teaching emotional regulation on a daily basis? We have always placed a great deal of emphasis on talking about feelings and developing "tools for our toolboxes" to deal with them. Unfortunately those tools are largely inadequate when there isn't a rational cause for a debilitating emotional state.

rfrey 19 minutes ago | parent [-]

People who have never experienced a particular challenge are quick to assume credit for its absence and assign moral failings to others who experience it. It's insufferable but common.

Imagine a millionaire who had millionaire parents lecturing his children on how they're not allowed to be poor. Lo! They're not! The lectures worked.

23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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JadeNB an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Depression is caused by laziness and anxiety by hopelessness. My kids know that they aren't permitted to be lazy or say they are bored. They don't have anxiety because they have hope despite circumstances.

This sounds horrible. If I weren't depressed or anxious, being told that I wasn't ever permitted to be lazy or say that I was bored would make me so; and, if I were, then being told that I was lazy and hopeless would make it worse.

poly2it 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Depression is caused by laziness [...]. My kids know that they aren't permitted to be lazy.

Do you really believe this, or do you believe your children aren't depressed? Your comment is not in accordance with science. Depression is a complex topic. I'm having trouble imagining a way to be more wrong. Is this satire?

pizzafeelsright 3 hours ago | parent [-]

No, not satire. How does science measure depression? There isn't a blood test and brain scans are inconclusive.

That said, I have not met a depressed person who exercises each day and lives in a clean house.

robertakarobin 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You can use me as an example! When I got diagnosed I was very physically active and also quite clean.

One of the hardest things for me with depression is the incredible guilt I have. What right do I have to be depressed when my life is objectively fine? Why should I get therapy when that might mean one less space for someone who is dealing with trauma or poverty or something else that gives them a "right" to be depressed? This causes a feedback loop of guilt leading to more depression and vice-versa.

Like I tell my kids, it's normal to sometimes feel depressed or hopeless. If you're dealing with a difficult circumstance then it's reasonable to have those feelings, and the only way to address those feelings is to deal with the circumstance. What's not normal is feeling depressed and hopeless for no logical reason at all.

arjie 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I appreciate your sharing your experience. I think it's very valuable that human beings describe to each other their decision making, actions, and outcomes. Often, people attempt to dissuade the sharing of information, and I think that leads to us, as humans, being less able to form an accurate model of the world. I appreciate your pushing through that form of opposition.

peepee1982 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s pretty tough to exercise or clean your house when getting out of bed feels like an insurmountable task.

Depression isn’t like an infection or cancer—it’s a diagnosis based on established criteria, as are most mental disorders. Experts may disagree on diagnosis or treatment, but that doesn’t make it useless.

By that logic, you might as well say autism is caused by avoiding eye contact—since there’s no blood test for it either.

collingreen an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is a pretty nasty line to double down on.

I hope you can take your personal anecdotes and add them to a larger body of research and other people's experience to refine your understanding. If you're right that everyone who has Depression is actually just lazy, you'll see lots of support for that. If, instead, you find a lot of different experiences you might conclude that Depression is a pretty nuanced and complicated topic, which might both expand your understanding and help you bring more empathy to the suffering people around you.

konmok 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I know several depressed people that exercise every day and live in a clean house.

pizzafeelsright 3 hours ago | parent [-]

That's unfortunate. Ask they why they are depressed and see if there is any way to fix it.

robertakarobin 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You think they don't ask themselves that question all day, every day?

reddit.com/r/thanksimcured

V__ 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Black swans do not exist. I have never seen one.

skywhopper 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You should shut your mouth and stop talking about things you know nothing about.

piperswe 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's almost as if depression reduces your executive function, making it more difficult to exercise each day or consistently clean your house.

And then you feel worthless for not being able to do those things, reinforcing the depression.

pizzafeelsright 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I agree 100% and it is an uphill battle requiring significant effort. That is where discipline is required. Exercising that discipline will bring positive results. There is nothing other than self stopping someone from cleaning instead of crying under a blanket.

V__ 2 hours ago | parent [-]

"If you have executive dysfunction, just discipline through it" is definitely a take.

nick__m 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

you have the causality reversed....

skywhopper 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You have no clue of which you speak.

3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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fn-mote 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

7 year olds are second graders in school. They are exposed to plenty.

drekipus an hour ago | parent [-]

Many public schools have teachings about climate change, issues white people gave the world, native stolen land etc.

It could be easy for a kid to feel depressed when they're either the source or the victim of all the world's problems only being 7 years in

conception 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

All this comment points out it’s you aren’t very familiar with second grades curriculums.

robertakarobin 42 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

With both my kids in 2nd grade and my wife also a public 2nd grade teacher, I consider myself pretty aware of what kids are being taught these days. They certainly are being gradually introduced to some of the problems of the world, but I think childhood development experts would all agree that's healthy. As for them being told they're the source or victim that's hardly the case. I'm sure there are a few isolated incidents that right-wing media love to bang on about, but not the experience for most.

drekipus 30 minutes ago | parent [-]

> but I think childhood development experts would all agree that's healthy.

Could it be that we think it's healthy because we can just give meds to the kids that it affects?

How would someone even have the ability to say "it's healthy" - I'm struggling to think how it comes about. I think it's healthy for my kids to cry about a worm dying in the garden, but anything less than "anxiety about a dying planet"...

Put it another way: climate change messaging IS totally about anxiety and putting human as the cause, so we can (as adults) change our habits and save the planet. Could it be too much for kids though?

georgeburdell 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’m with you on this. Granted my oldest is only 5, but anything profound my kids say can be traced back to something they heard

drekipus an hour ago | parent [-]

Teachers / schools / mandatory privilege education

lawlessone 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It sounds to me how a someone would describe feeling suicidal when they don't know the word for it.

pinkmuffinere 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Ya, when I'm sad I can come up with pretty creative language to express it. It does feel really tough to know that a seven year old feels like that :(

skywhopper 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Do you have a kid? Because they are humans who see and listen and hear and think on their own and don’t need to hear a phrase to come up with it, but also who definitely hear all sorts of things you don’t know about.

throw-the-towel 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Come on, 7 year olds should have already learned to form phrases.

incr_me 3 hours ago | parent [-]

No, you see, this phrase must have appeared in his training set.

s5300 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

burner420042 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I appreciate your candor in this. A respectful and on-going discussion and dialogue about this subject is really the best way forward for us all.

throwaway314155 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As someone with bad mental health since I was ~5 and parents who refused to acknowledge it - I think you're making the right decision.

There is however also benefit in updating your priors as new research comes out. I won't say this particular research discounts your experience. But maybe some day your son will prefer a different medication.

4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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gnulinux996 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> he feels like "he shouldn't be on Earth anymore" and suddenly react with extreme physical anxiety to almost everything.

Normal kid behavior has been "diagnosed" by the parents and the kid pumped with Prozac because it worked on his grandma.

This is a tremendous failure in parenting.

robertakarobin 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Suicidal ideation at 7 years old is not normal kid behavior, neither is sudden and unprecedented paralyzing anxiety over the prospect of ordinary things like going to a friend's birthday party or trying a new playground.

Me and my mom are on identical doses of Prozac to treat very similar symptoms.

We consulted with a child therapist, a pediatrician, and a psychiatrist.

collingreen an hour ago | parent [-]

You are shockingly patient and nice to these people who are going out of their way to be judgmental jerks.

Kudos to you; you're inspiring me to find more grace in my life, but don't feel obligated to respond to these people who are trying only to bring people down.

rfrey 15 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Did you stop reading before he described the extensive consultations with the pediatric psychologist?