| ▲ | skynetv2 5 hours ago |
| > A BSD-based OS project that aims to provide source and binary compatibility with macOS® and a similar user experience. I am curious - what is the motivation for this project? Is it to replicate macOS? - If yes, why? Is it to provide application compatibility on a non-macOS? If yes, why a full OS? Why not take the route like Wine or other such layers that make compatibility possible? Also, is there such a need for running macOS apps on a non-macOS? Who is the target audience? Would the energy be better spent in making Linux more stable or usable for the general public? If its just a hobby, sure, that is well & good. |
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| ▲ | rhet0rica 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| A lot of these questions are answered here: https://ravynos.com/faq To summarize... There is a WINE-analogous project, called Darling: https://www.darlinghq.org/ The goal for ravynOS is to be analogous to ReactOS. Much like ReactOS and WINE, ravynOS and Darling share a lot of Cocoa code. For the problem of OpenStep implementations specifically, a bespoke software stack has the benefit of being able to put Mach messaging into the kernel, where it is much more performant. They chose the FreeBSD kernel over Darwin for the sake of hardware compatibility (though of course NeXT Mach is one of the most widely-ported kernels of all time...) There is also overlap with GNUstep, helloSystem, and other projects in the broader "open-source Mac/NeXT" space, though ravynOS (obviously) prefers BSD/MIT/Apache-style licensing over GNU-style licensing. Nevertheless, ravynOS currently uses the GNUstep libobjc2 runtime, a bit like how most of the Unix world used to depend on gcc. |
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| ▲ | linguae 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm not affiliated with ravynOS, but I've been periodically following the project for a few years. The main page (https://ravynos.com/) expresses the philosophy of ravynOS: "We love macOS, but we’re not a fan of the ever-closing hardware and ecosystem. So, we are creating ravynOS — an OS aimed to provide the finesse of macOS with the freedom of FreeBSD." rayvnOS seems to be designed for people who love macOS, particularly its interface, its UI guidelines, and its ecosystem of applications, but who do not like the direction that Apple has moved toward under Tim Cook (soldered RAM, limited and inflexible hardware choices, notarization, iOS-influenced interface changes, increased pushiness with advertising Apple's subscription services, etc.) and who would be unhappy with either Windows or the Linux desktop. Speaking for myself, I used to daily-drive Macs from 2006 through 2021, but I now daily-drive PCs running Windows due primarily to the lack of upgradable RAM in ARM Macs. I'm not a big fan of Windows, but I need some proprietary software packages such as Microsoft Office. This makes switching to desktop Linux difficult. It would be awesome using what is essentially a community-driven clone of macOS, where I could continue using a Mac-like operating system without needing to worry about Apple's future directions. On the Unix side of things, I believe the decision to base ravynOS on FreeBSD rather than on Linux may make migrating from macOS to ravynOS easier, since macOS is based on a hybrid Mach/BSD kernel, and since many of the command-line tools that ship with macOS are from the BSDs. This is known as Darwin. It's not that a Mac clone can't be built on top of Linux, but FreeBSD is closer to Darwin than Linux is. |
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| ▲ | adastra22 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | This description really resonates with me, so I guess I’m a potential user. I’ve been running macOS most of my life. In college I ran Linux on my laptops, but I switched back to macOS as the user experience was better - I could spend far less time messing with things and instead rely on system defaults and first party apps. Year by year though I feel more like I don’t own my computer. I’ve tried switching back to Linux, but I always give up because despite the freedom, it starts feeling like a chore. Even Asahi Linux on macOS hardware I couldn’t get into. The rayvnOS vision is something I could get behind. A fully packaged, macOS-like user experience, where the default settings are good and things work out of the box. I’d LOVE to have that as on option. Linux compatibility or even macOS binary compatibility matters less to me than, say, an out of the box Time Machine like backup tool based on ZFS snapshots. So FreeBSD makes sense from that perspective. | |
| ▲ | raw_anon_1111 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So somehow running MacOS in 2025 on hot, loud, horrible battery life x86 based computers is a good thing? Not to mention x86 Mac apps are not long for this world. I can’t think of a single application I would miss moving from Macs to Windows. It’s more about the hardware and the integration with the rest of my Apple devices. | | |
| ▲ | forgetfulness 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Notes and Reminders are extremely good at what they do, and the synchronization with their iOS equivalents is flawless from what I can tell… and fat chance you get to uproot such a thing to a non-Apple OS. Third party apps other than for media editing seem to be rare, I think Apple has gobbled or rug pulled much of its independent software vendor ecosystem. | | |
| ▲ | linguae 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Come to think of it, it just dawned on me that most of the proprietary Mac programs I’ve used on Mac OS X/macOS (as opposed to the classic Mac OS) are either from Apple (Preview.app, Dictionary.app, iPhoto/Photos, iTunes/Apple Music, Keynote, iMovie, GarageBand), Microsoft (Office, Teams), or are Electron apps like Zoom and Slack. The only non-Microsoft, non-Electron third-party proprietary applications I’ve used on my Macs in the past 19 years are from the Omni Group, particularly OmniOutliner (which came bundled with my 2006 MacBook) and OmniGraffle. It seems that what I miss the most about using a Mac whenever I’m on Windows or Linux is Apple’s bundled apps, not necessarily third-party Mac apps since I never used them much to begin with. Makes me think harder. | |
| ▲ | cosmic_cheese 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Apple Mail also is in my eyes the only generic mail client out there that really “gets it”. Thunderbird has always felt clunky in comparison and the recent redesign just made it a different kind of clunky. Everything else is either too minimal (Geary), tries to clone old style Outlook (Evolution), or is tied to/favors a particular provider (Gmail, Outlook, etc). | |
| ▲ | raw_anon_1111 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That’s what I was implying when I said the integration. As far as indie apps, BBEdit will survive the heat death of the universe and has made it through every Apple transition since at least System 7 in 1992. Funny enough, I’ve only had one Apple computer during each era - an Apple //e (65C02), a Mac LC II (68K), A PowerMac 6100/60 (classic Mac PPC), Mac Mini G4 (OS X PPC), a Core Dúo Mac Mini (x86) and now a MacBook M2 Air. I was never really that interested in x86 Macs and I just bought cheso Windows PCs that I really didn’t use that much outside of work except web browsing and back in the day iTunes. |
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| ▲ | danans 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Would the energy be better spent in making Linux more stable or usable for the general public? Linux is stable and widely used, whether as Android, Ubuntu, WSL on Windows or Crostini on ChromeOS (itself Linux under the hood). The general public buy products like Macs, Lenovos, Steam Decks, Chromebooks or Frameworks. Nobody buys a "Linux". Linux and it's ecosystem are features of those products, not products themselves. |
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| ▲ | gs17 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Also, is there such a need for running macOS apps on a non-macOS? Arguably there's a need for running macOS apps on macOS even. E.g. my parents are stuck having an old Intel Mac Pro around on an old OS for a few 32-bit programs (not sure if it changed, but IIRC you couldn't run an OS that supported them as a VM on Apple Silicon). Pretty soon Rosetta 2 will go away as well. |
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| ▲ | mtillman 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Mac OS without the background ads garbage or the constant blocking of call-home requests would be nice. |
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| ▲ | kombine 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I have the same sentiment. I am forced to use a MacBook in my new job while waiting for them to procure a laptop that I can put Linux on. I can say that Linux with KDE Plasma desktop is in almost every way superior to Mac OS. Much better UX, configurability and core applications. And even little things are more polished and thought through compared to what a trillion dollar company was able to produce. It's really beyond me how people use Apple products, and it's the absolute majority of them in my field. |
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| ▲ | cosmic_cheese 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | “Better” is largely subjective. For some (including myself), a Windows-like paradigm like KDE uses is not desirable, and UI papercuts like the many that KDE has are highly visible. | | |
| ▲ | OhMeadhbh 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There are objective criteria that macOS definitely fails at. Various government agencies here in the states can't use macs even if they wanted to due to lack of #a11y support or the ability to load their own root cert stores. I agree with you that for MOST people, MOST of the complaints boil down to "I just don't like the Mac UX," but there are organizations that cannot tolerate the risk of forcing employees to use equipment that doesn't follow even the basics of section 508 or DoD guidance. | | | |
| ▲ | kombine 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't keep the record of every thing that I don't like about MacOS, but here's some: - cannot keep natural scrolling for trackpad whilst having the expected scrolling behaviour for the mouse - needs an external app for fractional display scaling - screenshot tool is objectively inferior to that in Plasma, eg. not clear how to annotate a screenshot or copy it to clipboard - Dolphin file browser is has cleaner and simpler UI, is more configurable and has a built-in terminal which is super handy. ... | | |
| ▲ | darrenf 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Can’t comment on the others but I copy screenshots to the clipboard multiple times a day in macOS and have done for years. Very frequently I send them via Screen Sharing to another Mac and paste there, something I value hugely. | |
| ▲ | al_borland 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | macOS has markup tools for screenshots (or any image) built right into Quicklook and Preview. It’s not as rich as something like SnagIt, but it’s good enough for adding some text, arrows, shapes, redactions, etc. | |
| ▲ | cosmic_cheese 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Dolphin is one of the things about KDE that bothers me, due to the way its windows are laid out and how they use margins/spacing. It just feels “wrong” in a way that even most other Linux file managers (including more full featured ones that still have a menubar) don’t. |
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| ▲ | slashdave 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Except for the trackpad, alas. | |
| ▲ | OhMeadhbh 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Just curious... did your employer agree to getting you a Lennucks Bocks 'cause you asked nice or were they frightened of running afoul of one of the many #a11y or security evaluation frameworks? |
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| ▲ | andai 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It would be great if it runs on mac too. macOS doesn't have much compatibility with itself. |
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| ▲ | MangoToupe 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I would much rather emulate linux apps on a more stable and consistent OS than vice versa. The sheer number of toolkits and window managers leaves my head spinning, and unifying their behavior even before you can begin to improve it feels like a nightmare. I personally don't care much about the dock or the look and feel or whatever; I just want access to the usability of macos without having to accept how closed it is. |
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| ▲ | eikenberry 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's hard to get a more consistent and stable kernel than Linux, not counting academic or experimental kernels w/o extensive hardware support. | | |
| ▲ | MangoToupe an hour ago | parent [-] | | I'm not referring to the kernel at all. It's the morass of the userland—three decades of catering to the expectations of IBM PC/windows users have led to... inconsistent and underwhelming results. If I wanted to use 1980s UX, I would have switched to windows or linux decades ago. But what am I saying? Consistent emacs bindings across all text forms is actually from the 1970s. Maybe I'm the problem.... |
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| ▲ | astro1138 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If it is no longer closed, it might proliferate just like Linux once it gathers a critical amount of users. :) |
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