| ▲ | biophysboy 21 hours ago |
| The main issue for me is the size of our platforms. If the owner of a platform tries to enforce a set of virtues, it will always be seen as censorship by a fraction of its users. That fraction will increase as the user base increases, as the alternatives diminish, and as the owners govern with more impunity. I personally think these loud users are immature, disrespectful, anonymous cowards, but my opinions are irrelevant — the important thing is that large platforms are politically unstable. The solution to this is to fragment the internet. Unfortunately, this is incompatible with the information economies of scale that underpin the US economy. In my opinion, our insanity is an externality of the information sector, much like obesity for staple goods or carbon dioxide for energy. I don’t agree with these individualized how-to guides. I can turn my phone off and go outside, but I still have to live in a world informed by social-media sentiment. |
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| ▲ | hexator 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| "enforce a set of virtues" is a weird way of saying "enforcing basic decency". Let's be clear here, people who are rightfully banned are always going to complain. Our opinions as the majority who DO want decent conversations online are not irrelevant. We should not give those people equal weight to those facing actual censorship. Fragmenting the internet will never get rid of the problem that moderation needs to happen. |
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| ▲ | biophysboy 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | To be clear, if I were in charge, there would be significantly more banning and moderation on all platforms. I am arguing moderation is more politically feasible in small communities, not that is any more or less ethical. | | | |
| ▲ | nradov 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What is basic decency? Is it indecent to advocate for atheism or if a women posts a picture of herself not wearing a burka? Many people in certain countries would say so. Personally I think those people are insane, and that maximal freedom of expression is the most important human right, but the fundamental problem is that there is no consensus on what constitutes basic decency. | | |
| ▲ | hexator 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm not talking about cultural differences. I'm talking about people simply being assholes online. You will always have a group of people complaining about the rules, that is inevitable. | |
| ▲ | biophysboy 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You're correct that decency is a nicer word for conformity. Preventing social discord avoids violence, but creates repression. I think the compromise is basically liberalism. Let people make their own communities. Let people switch communities, criticize other ones non-violently, enforce their own w/ democratically determined rules, etc. |
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| ▲ | nradov 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| A better solution to this would be to fragment within social media platforms. Allow users to post any content that's legal within their local jurisdiction. And give other users easy tools to create their own "filter bubbles" so that they don't see content which they personally consider insane or offensive. This would allow the social media platforms to sidestep political debates about censorship. |
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| ▲ | biophysboy 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I have wondered if the long term trajectory of social media is as a locally governed utility, similar to energy or water. I would love a boring page landlocked to my neighborhood. Obviously there would the NextDoor "Karen" issue, that would need to be addressed somehow... | |
| ▲ | Karrot_Kream 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Then you get the other side of this problem, the echo chamber effect. If people self sort they'll eventually end up in social circles that are completely illegible from the realm of physical politics, which leads to a political instability of a different kind. It's a hard problem. I think multi armed bandit based algorithms can help. Bluesky is a sort of "live" example of self filtering and it ends up creating a lot of fractional purity politics over which filter bubble is the just/moral filter bubble. | |
| ▲ | hedgeho 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sounds like bluesky |
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| ▲ | baxuz 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Nah, the solution is deanonymization. People with no shame, and with strong anti-social tendencies should not be given a safe space. |
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| ▲ | EdgeExplorer 21 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Facebook has a real name policy and is a prime example of internet-fueled insanity. Why does deanonymization not help Facebook be a more positive place? | | |
| ▲ | biophysboy 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | To tie it to my own view, I don’t think deanonymization has any effect if the name is meaningless to 99.9% of the community. For every person fired for posts, there are 10000 others who are not. | | |
| ▲ | array_key_first 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If companies really wanted to fire people for posts, they would start with firing people for vaguely anti-capital sentiment. Not saying racist things or whatever. We need to be careful what we ask for. Who is effectively doing the censorship matters. Powerful people are probably not going to be censoring based on 'good morals' - because they themselves do not have good morals. | |
| ▲ | jimt1234 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | For every person fired for posts, there's a lucrative Fox News commentator gig. |
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| ▲ | piker 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Because Facebook monetizes the engagement of its formerly reasonable users by selling that engagement to spam bot farms? |
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| ▲ | 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | bandofthehawk 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Does that also apply to people living under oppressive governments? Anonymity can be a useful tool for sharing information that those in power don't want released, for example whistle blowing. | |
| ▲ | anonbgone 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You said it brother! We should make everyone who disagrees with baxuz where name tags on their chest in the real world too. So we can know who they are. We can even put the names on a bright yellow six sided star. That way everyone can see them clearly. | |
| ▲ | stronglikedan 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If anyone should be given a safe space, then everyone should be given a safe space. | |
| ▲ | elcapitan 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | So that people with no shame, and with strong anti-social tendencies who are in power can come back at the de-anonymized people. Yeah, thanks. | |
| ▲ | 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | dartharva 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A woman wearing anything but a burqa in an extremist Islamic society would be popularly categorized as one of the "people with no shame, and with strong anti-social tendencies". So according to you liberal women in Iran, Pakistan, Sudan etc should not be given a safe space, is it? | |
| ▲ | ryandv 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
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