Remix.run Logo
JSR_FDED 8 hours ago

Tariffs are great. They protect the struggling domestic IT industry and gives it time to ramp up its production of vintage computer parts.

xnx 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The tariffs encourage domestic American hobbies like watching TV and eating potatoes.

mlinhares 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You'll have to remove the potatoes as well as those can come from Canada.

all2 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Specifically thin sliced potatoes fried in industrial lubricants.

cenamus 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Animal fats are just as well used (or were used, before oil) for lubrication. Most notably probably whale blubber

reactordev 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

With chemical compounds spread on them for flavor. In a package made of PFAS.

khannn 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

WHOA! I prefer my po-tay-toes sliced and fried in duck fat.

bathtub365 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Since ducks are migratory shouldn’t duck products be tariffed?

khannn 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I have a bigger issue: a bunch of undocumented CANADIAN geese in MY BACKYARD! I want ICE to send them BACK to Snow Mexico!

tdeck 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Think you want an Amstrad CPC? Try burger instead.

tanepiper 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This explains why John Titor needed to come back for those IBM parts

Terr_ 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The best time to manufacture vintage computer parts is 28 years ago, but the second-best time is today! :p

varispeed 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I know one US business that used to make niche electronic product. Most components they used were from China. Got hit by the tariffs that wiped all the operating profit. Guy also had to sell his home and is now couchsurfing. Business is unlikely going to recover.

Of course he considered making chips and other components in the US, but he was few billions short to start the fab.

epistasis 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Good thing that the US cancelled collection of unemployment stats just as all these sorts of negative business effects were happening. If a job is lost in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

JKCalhoun 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I stopped buying vintage cameras from Japan on eBay.

Well, there's always the next administration…

esalman 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm sure JD Vance administration will be more vintage-camera-friendly.

inferiorhuman 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Nah, I'm sure he's more focused on vintage furniture.

CursedSilicon 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Likes the creak of some old wood

mindslight 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Only the kind that are small enough to hide in public toilets.

Gibbon1 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Reminds me of a comment I think by Nancy Teeters the first female Federal Reserve board member. She said the other board members thought they could savage the US manufacturing industry to kill wage inflation and break the unions and it would come right back once they stopped. And it didn't.

inopinatus 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

From the other side of the Atlantic this sounds like straight Thatcherism, in which Chicago-school monetarism was an ideological anti-union weapon, and the Thatcher cabinet was not coy about it. However I think the US went that way first even if Reaganomics came later.

scrps 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I think a lot of that in the US got spun up with Nixon, Reagan brought a lot of it to the mainstream though. Both of them hated unions with a passion that is for sure.

johnebgd an hour ago | parent [-]

Unions are the best of all the bad solutions we’ve come up with so far for labor to compete with capital. The worst of course is collectivism through government, though that’s being tried again…

seg_lol 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sociopaths. It breaks me to see the Fed use interest rates to cause unemployment as the lever against inflation. It all seems so cruel.

zahlman 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They use interest rates to protect against inflationary (and deflationary) spirals, which are known to be devastating. The effect on the unemployment rate is a known, and predictable, side effect. But formal unemployment is small compared to labour force dropout anyway, and the latter is not necessarily so sensitive to economic conditions anyway. Besides which, the unemployment rate can't really keep going down forever.

Zoom out; recent levels are actually quite impressive in the USA. Yes, they've climbed since 2023, but they're only just reaching the pre-GFC minimum (https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-une...).

Zoom out further: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE/

Had it not been for COVID you'd be at more than 16 years without a(n NBER-determined) recession, long enough to suggest a fundamental shift vs. how things worked in the several decades before that.

ericd 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Have you ever read about people burning piles of German currency because it was better than using it to buy firewood with? Not to say we would get there, but allowing inflation to run is not kinder.

wqaatwt an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Inflation like that doesn’t just happen. It can only be the outcome of explicit government policy. Like in post WW1 Germany they wanted to wipe the value of all domestic government debt they accumulated during the war.

badc0ffee 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Have you ever tried to start a fire with a bunch of paper? It doesn't work great, and what a mess.

phil21 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

Done it plenty of times.

Works great until you run out of paper.

inferiorhuman 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think these days folks typically use Zimbabwe or Argentina as examples.

AniseAbyss 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am imagining Mexican cartels smuggling hardware into the US...

(But seriously I do not know how good US Customs is but in my country every day millions of packages from Asia arrive and they are checking not even a percent).

iancmceachern 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This kind of happens. There are all sorts of cases of counterfit ICs. Some even making it into military hardware

wildzzz 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Counterfeits don't happen when you buy parts from reputable distributors (digikey, mouser, Newark, TTI, arrow, etc) that are not "marketplace" items. These parts often come right from the manufacturer or from a domestic distributor for the manufacturer. You get counterfeits when you buy from brokers.

Often with older electronics designs, the parts the engineers originally picked are no longer made. It's not the end of the world, there are solutions. Sometimes the vendor changes the part number due to a process change or the part design is sold to another company and goes under a new number. You can also sometimes find drop in compatible parts (common for the 7400/5400 series chips), these may be in a different package so you might have to design an interposer or deadbug it. The worst option is finding old stock using a broker. There are legit brokers that will source old stock and "refurbish" them for you (called re-lifeing). But there are also shady brokers that will buy counterfeits (or get tricked into buying them) that may or may not actually work. Sometimes the counterfeits are relabeled parts that are compatible but the new label gets a higher price because they aren't being made any more. Sometimes the counterfeit is actually a totally different design that is shoehorned into its desired purpose (like a new microcontroller masquerading as an old processor or ASIC). Other times it's just some random junk pulled from e-waste that's been relabelled. Other times you'll get a counterfeit that comes from a stolen design. Even when the counterfeit functions, it may not perform to the same spec as the original part (very important for military spec parts) or will have other characteristics that make it incompatible with the rest of the design (like drawing too much or too little current). When it comes to engineering in ISO9001, traceability is a huge thing and brokers just can't provide that.

At my job, we have an "absolutely no brokers" rule. They simply cannot guarantee that what they provide is genuine. If a legitimate distributor doesn't have stock of a discontinued part, they'll never have stock of it. Brokers will tell you what you want to hear while they go out and try to make it happen. I'm not saying all brokers are shady but if you are considering buying from a broker, you should be instead considering how you can replace that part.

vachina 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Don’t buy your ICs from aliexpress.

inferiorhuman 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Well they're less perishable than avocados.

throw09803290 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

hakfoo 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Why exactly is China an enemy? They want to increase their standard of living and expand their sphere of influence. That doesn't have to hurt the US directly. What it may undermine is the idea that the US gets to unilaterally steer the developed world.

On the other hand, perhaps that's a burden the US should be excited about tossing off. It's expensive to be the World Police, and it's left them with a lot of strained reputation and burnt-through leverage. It also requires them to do a lot of "lead by example" stuff that they seem completely disinterested in (industrial policy, forming consensus, trying to present as a magnanimous moral model).

cultofmetatron an hour ago | parent | next [-]

china is an enemy because they have a parallel financial institution that isn't controlled by the people who control the european/american financial hegemony and have enough military to stand up to te US uf war broke out.

jalapenos 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Your sarcasm detector failed

calvinmorrison 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

a purported niche/low-volume electronics, but the profit is somehow dependent on BOM price? a tariff bump on a small BOM doesn’t take you from profitable to homeless.

if that happened, the business already had seriously bad margins, bad cash flow, over-leverage, or maybe he was just doing it out of love getting paid maybe back for his time or not.

tariffs might’ve hurt, but they don’t collapse a healthy niche hardware company where buyers are presumably also into the niche.

seems weird i dont get it. can you explain further?

herdymerzbow 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

gamers nexus did a great (and very long) video on the impact of tariffs on US computer businesses. Some of the manufacturers went into quite a bit of detail breaking down their costs and how tariffs would render some products so unprofitable that they would cease to serve the US market. Not sure if it necessarily applies to a niche/low volume business, but the impacts on a larger business were eye opening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W_mSOS1Qts

tariffs have chopped and changed so much since this video that the specific tariff amounts mentioned are likely not accurate.

iancmceachern 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Hardware companies often operate on a relatively thin margin, especially as compared to say, software companies.

Let's say a companies margin was 40%. The cost of their constituent parts doubles due to tariffs, they are no longer making money as a result.

I hope this helps explain it for you.

WalterBright 3 hours ago | parent [-]

It's more complicated than that.

For example, the company can raise its prices. How well that works depends on whether there is competition for the company's product. If the competition is also hit by the tariffs, then they're on an even playing field. If the competition is using native parts, then the competitor gets the business.

iancmceachern 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This is one of the great misconceptions.

There are often no "native" alternatives.

Even the machines that make the chips are nearly all made in one country and then shipped around the world.

The amazing, modern nature of our modern world is built on the collective effort and knowledge of humankind globally.

Globally.

esalman 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Do you run a business with good margin, good cash flow, optimally leveraged and for profit? If yes, please tell us more about how tariffs have helped you.

WalterBright 3 hours ago | parent [-]

If you've been making the products locally, the tariffs on foreign products help you.

SturgeonsLaw 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Depends on your supply chain's exposure to foreign markets

m463 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We need to get industry to step up production of the AST 6 pack plus, or Plus hardcard.

maybe even s-100 bus cards.

yibg 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When there is enough demand for vintage parts, it'll motivate someone to create a time machine to manufacture them in larger volume in the past and bring them to the present. Win win.

Freedom2 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Importantly, the other countries are paying for the tariffs! What happened here is probably just an error, a mistake on UPS' part. There's no way US citizens should be the one paying tariffs, no one understands tariffs better than the US.

charcircuit 6 hours ago | parent [-]

If the seller from the country doesn't pay the tariff then it gets passed to the consumer. Someone has to pay the tarrif to import a tariffed good.

nkrisc 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It’s a joke about the administration’s line that the tariffs would be paid by other countries, not by American consumers.

JSR_FDED 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Freedom2 was joking

tho1342834y9234 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Quite funny to see the US import the utterly disastrous "Import Substitution" model that destroyed India's fledgling industrial base that was left-over after the British left.

jalapenos 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Since it came from India shouldn't they be paying a tariff on that model

like_any_other 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Too bad all the competent politicians were dead set against preventing the "free market" from hollowing out American manufacturing.

bruce511 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I understand your sentiment, but I feel like your position is somewhat simplistic, and the actual situation is more complicated.

First, overall, the US has increased manufacturing output over the last couple decades. 2019 was the highest year ever, covid interupted a bit, but levels are back there again.

However the number of people involved has dropped a lot. US manufacturing prefers automation and prefers to manufacture things which are high-volume, low labor.

A good parallel is agriculture. Foods produced in the US (and the US produces a lot of food) tend towards low-labor. Think fields of wheat or corn, not vegetables. Most fresh produce comes from cheap-labor regions like Mexico (or is grown locally with foreign labor.)

So really your point is not about American manufacturing, but rather American labor.

Secondly, this free market you refer to is the American consumer. They are very price sensitive, and deeply favor cheap over good. This contrasts to a lot of the rest of the developed world which strikes more of a balance in this regard.

Since labor is cheaper elsewhere, it follows that cheap imports are favored (by the consumer) over the locally produced items. Unfortunately the imported good is often of a higher quality now (because foreign manufacturers can afford quality and still be cheap.)

So, the politicians you speak of (regardless of party) are reluctant to medel, partly because of unintended consequences, and mostly because the only real lever they have is to increase the cost of imported goods (ie tarrif them) which in turn gets consumers upset. (Witness the fury of the voter in 2020 because of more expensive goods.)

Thus while it's helpful to blame politicians, politicians are elected by consumers. Consumers who could by local, but choose not to. Consumers who vote against politicians that cause price hikes. (Even when those same politicians incentivise local production with things like CHIPS act.)

You can blame politicians, and indeed corporations all day long, but the consumers are voting with their wallets, and "cheap" is the only metric they care about.

mindslight 4 hours ago | parent [-]

... "cheap" is the main metric consumers care about because whenever anything can be supplied for less, the Federal Reserve calls that "deflationary" and creates enough new money to make sure prices go up to erase those gains. So the cost of buying anything isn't bottom of the barrel keeps going up in real terms. Most people can afford to swim against the current in one product category, and some people [the affluent] can afford to swim against the current in many product categories, but most people cannot afford to swim against the current in most product categories.

intended 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Dang it no! That isn’t remotely how deflationary works.

There’s always things being supplied for at lower prices. That is what product or service improvements do.

Your car is vastly safer than a Ford Model T. Air bags, better brakes, power steering, AC - all of which make it a vastly superior vehicle. If inflation worked the way you implied, the price of it would have constantly gone up, and never would it have managed to be affordable.

Firms reduce the cost of production and get to sell more to larger numbers of consumers. Total revenue = $ value * N customers.

You expand further on your position in the second part of your para, but that is fundamentally about how wages have not gone up over time. Which has nothing to do with inflation. It has MUCH more to do with the labor markets, and the pay people are getting for their labor.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/deflation.asp

mindslight 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> Air bags, better brakes, power steering, AC - all of which make it a vastly superior vehicle. If inflation worked the way you implied, the price of it would have constantly gone up, and never would it have managed to be affordable.

You're talking about something different than what I was - improvements that make a product better without the price going up (because the cost is small enough to become the new baseline, either by market stickiness or regulation). Those don't affect CPI, and therefore make life better at the same price. So I agree with where you're coming from there.

My point is about the manufacturing/product innovations that make prices go down (regardless of whether quality gets better or worse). Take for example offshoring, which was sold as maybe your local factory will have to lay off some people but we will have less expensive items at the store so we will all win on average. But it's a trick because the Fed creates a feedback loop that makes it so prices cannot go down on average.

Wages haven't risen as fast as consumer price inflation because that new money is injected into the financial industry (the fake "fiscal responsibility" of the Republican party). And when too much newly created money finally leads to too much demand for labor and wages start rising, the Fed then tamps down on the monetary creation.

oarla 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

True, but does not help in this case with vintage parts.

robrain 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Please engage sarcasm-awareness mode.

dullcrisp 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Neither humans nor LLMs are currently equipped with separate sarcasm-awareness modes so telling someone to engage theirs can only be…ohh

xxs 7 hours ago | parent [-]

that's so beyond obviously a sarcastic remark. In that regard I'd consider a vast majority of the humans totally capable of detecting dead pan sarcasm both in spoken and written speech.

nandomrumber 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Isn’t there a well known internet adage that speaks to this?

Do you remember what it is?

AlotOfReading 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Cunningham's law

mindcrime 7 hours ago | parent [-]

What? No it's not, it's ...

Hang on a sec... you sly devil, you!

Not falling for that one. Hmmmpphhh.

nandomrumber 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Cunningham himself even claims it was a misquote, and that he never suggested such a thing.

gopher_space 6 hours ago | parent [-]

“Shouting incorrect directions in Ironforge” predates Cunningham by several years in any case.

oarla 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Noted.

8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
glitchc 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I believe the OP was attempting humour.

oarla 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes. Pitfall of not reading the entire comment before responding.

WillPostForFood 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

We need manufacturing in the US. The service economy can't survive long term; you have to make things. Tariffs are not fun, but they are an important part of making that happen.

But, tariffs on used cameras or vintage electronics does not help bring manufacturing back. Let's just bring back the de minimis exemption for things like this. More industry targeted tariffs, fewer blanket tariffs.

bruce511 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No sure why you are being down-voted. Your argument is coherent and correct.

Targeted tariffs on specific goods leads to the development of local production of that good. Lots and lots of countries have these in place.

Blanket tariffs are, of course, useless. The US doesn't have the climate to grown coffee, so tarifing Brazil serves no purpose other than taxing coffee consumption.

A surgeon uses a scalpel, not an axe. Used well, tariffs are a very powerful tool. Used badly they create more harm, and don't achieve the goal of promoting local production.

Tariffs which are here today, but gone tomorrow, don't created the stable environment which long-term investment in local production requires.

rootusrootus 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> The US doesn't have the climate to grown coffee

Well, Hawaii does, but your point is good, thank you.

bruce511 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I knew that would come up :). Yes, Hawaii produces about 1% of the coffee consumed in the US. I'm guessing a chunk of that is consumed in Hawaii...

But I'm glad you got the point. :).

cenamus 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

Hawaii would even have mountaineous and that island climate that's good for growing coffee. But labor costs probably mean they couldn't compete even if they tried

matwood 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> We need manufacturing in the US.

Overall there is a lot of manufacturing in the US. What the US doesn't have are manufacturing jobs because labor is more expensive than automation.

Maybe you meant the US should make sure to have some certain types of manufacturing like chips. In that case, targeted programs are a better approach than any sort of tariffs. See the CHIPS act for example.

jalapenos 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You're not very good at it though. You're too aristocratic in your thinking - let the coolies make the stuff, we'll consume it.

The reason services are such a big part of your economy is because you can sit in an air conditioned office, send some emails, push some numbers around on a spreadsheet, and call it work.

mindslight 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Or targeted investment in relevant industries, similar to what the previous administration was doing before voters were suckered by the New York con man whose entire campaign was bemoaning everything about our country while apparently having some pretty spicy long-term kompromat hanging over him.