> I hardly understand the headline. Steam machine is just a computer, and since it can be used for other stuff than playing games, then it can't have the cheap pricing of a console.

I don't understand this train of thought. It absolutely can have the cheap pricing of a console, as long as Steam is the default store, and the majority of users will use the console as-is and buy games on Steam.

Let me give a quick analogy: Google paid Apple 20B USD just to be the default search engine in Safari, even though users can easily change it. Defaults matter. The vast majority of people are not highly technical users who customize everything in-depth and seek out alternatives. The vast majority of people just use whatever is the default.

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SchemaLoad 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The main problem I see is that if this is any cheaper than it's hardware, people will buy 100s of them and stack them in server racks for CI runners or whatever. Generating only losses for Valve and making the hardware unavailable to gamers.

It needs to either be at market rate or locked down to only be useful for gaming.

	▲	pjerem 19 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Iiuc, unlike Sony’s PS3 (which were bought and used like this), Steam is the unique distributor so it would be easy for them to not allow (or make really difficult to) buying thousands of machines. (Or they could sell it everywhere for higher price but the Machine would come with a non transferable Steam gift card.)
	▲	solid_fuel 33 minutes ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		I think the limitation on server gear these days is electricity price vs compute, with the hardware price being an up front investment but not dominating the lifetime cost. At least at this end of the price range - it's a consumer GPU, not an A100 or anything.
	▲	lucyjojo 41 minutes ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		you don't remember playstation clusters? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_cluster that said, practically buying hundreds of them should prove to be quite difficult.

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jsheard 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> It absolutely can have the cheap pricing of a console

Valve hasn't committed to a price yet, but they told Gamers Nexus that it'll be priced less like a console and more like an entry level computer (i.e. more expensive than a console).

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kouteiheika 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I didn't say it "will", I said it "can". And since pricing is not announced yet we have no idea what they will do in the end.

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jauntywundrkind 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Weird statement, because I can search for PS5 pro & see $750 price points, and entry level computers have been far far cheaper. Cheaper than Xbox series X at $650. Getting pretty solid laptops for a bit under $500 has been possible for many years now.

But "entry level computer" has a very broad interpretation available. Could be higher for sure.

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Telaneo 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Do those computers play games competently? I doubt they play them as well as the PS5 or Series X. We aren't in the days where integrated graphics instantly meant sub 20 FPS on any game no matter how simple, but I still wouldn't throw any recent triple A game at even new-ish computers with integrated graphics and expect them to perform all that well. They'll play Rocket League, Stardew Valley and Minecraft just fine, and maybe that's all they need to do, but a Steam Machine that can't play tomorrow's title roughly on par with current gen consoles seems like a losing bet unless the price is equivalently lower.

	▲	somenameforme 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Yes. There's a peer thread below this one with more examples, but in general the biggest (and most relevant) cost you're looking at with a new computer is the video card. And a PS5 level video card is the RX 6700 XT which is like $200-$300. If you're willing to purchase second hand you can go substantially lower. I suspect most of us are of a vaguely similar age, and when "we" were growing up, PC gaming was ridiculously expensive. A new gaming PC was thousands of dollars and then obsolete within a couple of years, leaving you constantly checking new release 'minimum system requirements.' It was quite painful and a big reason I (and I suspect others) migrated to console gaming. But now a days? I have a relatively old PC and never even bother looking at spec requirements - it'll run it, just fine.
	▲	shootingoyster 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		The Steam Machine uses a dedicated graphics chip, similar to a discrete AMD RX 7060M. Laptop chip sure, but a stone's throw from integrated graphics. These Machines will be able to keep up.

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jsheard 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I assumed they meant an entry level gaming computer, not something with potato-grade integrated graphics, but I agree it's vague.

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somenameforme 3 hours ago | parent [-]

You can build an entry level gaming computer for under $400 easily. Here [1] is one example (parts list/link in the description).

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vecR26Nz_YA

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jsheard 3 hours ago | parent [-]

That build uses a 13 year old CPU from AliExpress, there's no accounting for taste but I think most entry level builds are aiming a little higher than that. Some newer games won't even try to run on a CPU of that vintage since it doesn't have AVX2 support.

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somenameforme 3 hours ago | parent [-]

It was released in 2016 and does support AVX2. In general what matters when building a decent rig is aiming to balance performance to optimize against bottle necks. He demonstrated the system in various modern games, for instance running Delta Force at 4k/120FPS. And the CPU was scarcely getting touched - running at around 20%.

You can spend a ton of money on a bleeding edge CPU and see 0 performance gain in almost all cases, because basically no modern games are CPU limited, or even remotely close to it, so you're sitting there with your overpriced CPU basically idling.

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I think many people are out of the loop on PC costs and performance. The days where you needed some $1000+ bleeding edge rig to even begin to play the latest stuff are long gone. Since this thread is on consoles - an approximate PS5 equivalent video card is the RX 6700 XT which is like $200-$300, and that is, by far, the biggest expense.

	▲	jsheard 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> It was released in 2016 and does support AVX2 My mistake, I missed off the important "v4" when looking up the model. Embarrassing.

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TiredOfLife an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Steam machine is barely at base ps5 level in performance