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CobrastanJorji 10 hours ago

> Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who are we to tell you how to use your computer?

From your mouth to Tim Cook's ear, friend.

culi 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I haven't gamed in almost a decade but what an exciting time to be alive as a PC gamer:

- almost every classic console is easy to emulate

- most modern consoles are, less-legally, emulatable

- we have thorough archives of Flash games and ofc almost all non-flash web games are still functioning

- cross compatibility across OS's has never been better

And, best of all, almost all of this is achievable on Linux! You can also plug in almost any controller, VR headset, or monitor/projector. Remote gaming has also made incredible progress allowing gamers to access their expansive libraries while not even at home.

In fact, I can't think of a single thing a console can do that a PC can't

musicale 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> In fact, I can't think of a single thing a console can do that a PC can't

Play current Nintendo game cards (and run the eShop etc.) without headaches or workarounds of dubious legality?

Run your whole PSN library reliably, without headaches or workarounds?

Full game system (with decent 4K in the case of PS5) for the price of a GPU?

Work out of the box without messing with it?

agoodusername63 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> - most modern consoles are, less-legally, emulatable

wheres the PS4 or like, any xbox emulator?

It's just Nintendo that has modern, usable emulators for most of the games you'd want to play. xbox never got lucky for basically any of their consoles and Sony never got anything usable after PS3.

MegaDeKay 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> wheres the PS4

- early days, but ShadPS4

> any xbox emulator

- OG XBox: xemu

- XBox 360: xenia

- XBox 1: early days but WinDurango and XWine1

agoodusername63 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

none of these consoles are "usable"

I'm pretty into emulation. It's very misleading to claim that "modern consoles are emulatable" when no, only nintendo has emulators you can boot up, pick from a very large list of compatible games, and have a consistent experience that any sane person would want out of these.

Sony disappears after PS3 and xbox... well I guess xemu is Fine, but you're going to play for an hour and then come to the conclusion that you're better off hooking up the old console

entropicdrifter 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Xenia's usable these days. Worse than RPCS3, but usable

tapoxi 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Early days? Those consoles shipped 12 years ago.

culi 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I was gonna correct you and then I realized 2013 was indeed 12 years ago.

I guess in my original comment when I said "modern" I just mean not the classics. Other than the latest Xbox and Playstation models, emulators for those lineages are quite mature. Even the Nintendo Switch (2017) has multiple really great emulators.

The point is it's easier to list out which consoles don't have emulators than it is to list out consoles that do. Other than nintendo, there are pretty few console-exclusive games nowadays

5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
tmtvl 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> almost every classic console is easy to emulate

Yes, but unless you have a library from back in the day classic console games are hard to find and/or expensive. Try finding a copy of Biker Mice From Mars, for example.

amypetrik8 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> almost every classic console is easy to emulate

>Yes, but unless you have a library from back in the day classic >console games are hard to find and/or expensive. Try finding a >copy of Biker Mice From Mars, for example.

Anon, I... ..... I am sorry to be the first one to tell you this... but you don't need to buy a copy of Biker Mice from Mars off eBay for 9 gorillion dollars. You can download every SNES game ever made in the history of ever for zero dollars. Then autists have reprogrammed FPGAs so you can run the ROM on exact circuitry powering a CRT to have an essentially 99.999999% identical experience

culi 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

My friend,

https://www.google.com/search?q=Biker+Mice+From+Mars+rom

fwipsy 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Consoles are just loss leaders for software now. Hot take: this is true of the Steam Deck and Machine as well. Yes you can play games from other vendors, but PC gamers are very loyal to Steam and many will never bother. I imagine at least half of steam deck users just use it like a console, not like a PC.

csullivannet 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't see a reason not to be loyal to Steam. I probably spend just as much if not more than console gamers but in return I get so much more value.

culi 4 hours ago | parent [-]

It's pretty good as a consumer but they take a massive cut out for developers. I'm not crying about EA not getting its profit margins, but the cut Steam takes can really hurt indie devs.

I try to buy from itch.io whenever its an option.

jsheard 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> I'm not crying about EA not getting its profit margins, but the cut Steam takes can really hurt indie devs.

Indies actually lose more of their margin than EA does, because Steam reduces their 30% cut to 25% after $10m in sales and 20% after $50m in sales. Few indies are doing those numbers, so it's functionally a discount for AAA publishers to discourage them from leaving for their own launchers again (EA did leave back when it was a flat 30% rate for everyone).

m463 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Consoles are just loss leaders for software now.

Maybe software is just a link in the chain to subscriptions.

aussieguy1234 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I guess to get their stores on the platform, Epic Games etc will need to create officially supported Linux stores.

entropicdrifter 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Or endorse Heroic, which works better than their launcher anyhow, even on Windows

danudey 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, imagine if you could install a different operating system on your Mac! What a world that would be!

Worth noting that this is a dig against the other consoles which do not allow this, not Apple who (in part) does.

jsheard 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Apple giving you more than consoles do is damning with faint praise, the Mac bootloader is technically open but without any public hardware documentation it's borderline impossible to do anything useful with that. Asahi have done incredible work but even they are still catching up with the M3, nevermind the current M5.

bigyabai 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Apple can revoke it at any time. If a future update disabled or changed iBoot, there is no guarantee Linux would ever run again (unlike UEFI Macs).

Valve is not like Apple, they treat UEFI as a default.

foxandmouse 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That said, when are we going to get a public release for SteamOS? …There’s a joke somewhere about them reaching SteamOS 3

shayway 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's always been public:

https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/65B4-2AA3-5F37-42...

https://gitlab.com/evlaV/holo-PKGBUILD

Aurornis 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> https://gitlab.com/evlaV/holo-PKGBUILD

So to summarize: Valve provides source code for what they distribute, in compliance with the GPL, but this person went on a personal crusade to demand they open up their private GitLab to the world?

There appears to be some interesting history here, but this takes the cake as the weirdest README I've ever seen in a git repo.

The writing is impenetrably wordy and filled with excessive bolding and parentheticals. It goes completely off track and turns into an extremely long rant that implores the reader to "abstain from procreation", among other things. There are hundreds of links and hundreds of quotes mixed into long-winded sections about the author's self-importance.

Does anyone have a link to a more down to earth, less self-important, and more importantly concise explanation of what's going on?

santoshalper 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah, this is clearly a person going through a mental health crisis. Sorry for them.

lelandfe 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> These public repositories (@gitlab.com/evlaV) are an unmodified 1:1 public copy/mirror of Valve's latest (currently private) SteamOS 3.x (holo) GitLab repositories

This sure reads like it's private

_bernd 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> I dunno if I'd characterize this as "public"

Then define public and state what's wrong with this repo which conflicts from your definition of public.

For me this looks like a fine public resource and after a short glimpse it looks like that you should be able to even build this effing source code from this repo.

Edit ps. If you edit your own content then please leave a note about what you have changed please

Aurornis 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The linked repo isn't the official public resource. Valve provides the source packages for what they distribute (aka GPL compliance) but this person wanted them to open up their private GitLab instance to the world.

As far as I can tell, they wrote a script to download the source packages they provide and then try to reconstruct them into a GitLab repo.

DSMan195276 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well based on the paragraphs in the README it's not actually being updated anymore, it only reflects SteamOS as of August and the author quit running their process to update it.

7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
lelandfe 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The ask was "when are we going to get a public release for SteamOS"

Someone's bootleg copy of the private repo is not proof that it has

7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
_bernd 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Now I see...

Down down down you find

> (April 1, 2024): After over 2 3 years (and 2 Steam Deck model releases - LCD and OLED) Valve still hasn't publicized their private GitLab repositories nor fully complied with the GPL. I decided to (finally) release the relevant portion of my automated "bot" project, aptly titled srcpkg2git. This/These software/tools haven't been updated/modified much since 2022, but should allow users to easily access and even mirror Valve's SteamOS private repositories (as I've demonstrated with these public mirrors (@gitlab.com/evlaV) the past over 2 3 years).

Yes indeed. That's hardly public what we can get...

Aurornis 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If I understand this correctly, Valve provides the src packages for the packages they distribute. This person wrote a script to download the src packages and extract them. The README misleadingly claims it's a "mirror" of Valve's private git repos, which is not accurate.

The author wants them to open up their GitLab instance, showing their internal development. That's not required under GPL.

Valve appears to be complying. This person wanted access into their internal development systems, though.

The rest of the README is tens of thousands of lines about capitalism, abstaining from procreation, and withdrawing from society with hundreds of links to videos and hundreds of quotes. It's very strange. These are not the writings of a healthy person, sadly.

oblio 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Somewhere along the line during the past almost 30 years, we forgot what public and private mean.

shayway 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You can download it and install images freely. The source code is private but available.

pegasus89 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The installer is here: https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/65B4-2AA3-5F37-42...

The sources of the packages are here: https://steamdeck-packages.steamos.cloud/archlinux-mirror/so...

And for the record most packages come directly from Arch Linux, unmodified.

BolexNOLA 6 hours ago | parent [-]

That is not for desktops. I would assume they meant a proper steamOS desktop release. We haven’t seen one in many years and the previous one is basically useless for most people.

Many of us have been waiting for a proper release for a LONG time. Bazzite is nice but I want to see what valve does next.

dathinab 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

my guess is it will be mostly the same as for the SteamDeck but with

- Game Mode becoming getting a not Steam Deck specific desktop version, which I would love to see, e.g. last time I installed Bazzite+Steam Game mode, the Game Mode will default to 1080p even if your GPU can render 4k ...(easy to fix in the options menu, tho. But not very convenient.).

- slightly different defaults, tweaks, builds (e.g. AFIK not to long ago if you tried to put SteamOS on a desktop with RDNA3 graphics it didn't work. But they seem to more or less just use a standard linux graphic stack, so it's probably was just something on the line of "as it's not expected the parts needed for RDNA3 wheren't compiled in/shipped in the SteamOS for SteamDeck image)

hamdingers 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There's nothing stopping you from installing it on a desktop with the right hardware.

I have a Ryzen 5 5600 and a 7600 xt in an sff pc, installed steamos directly from the recovery image. It supports the GPU, controllers, even the super fast sleep/wake.

p1necone 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have a SFF pc with an AMD GPU and AMD CPU both with better specs that the new Steam Machine just waiting for them to release a standalone installer for SteamOS :(

20after4 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I just use vanilla debian and Steam works great. Just set it to launch steam on login and set your system to auto-login, that should get you most of the way.

bsimpson 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can use the Steam Deck recovery image to flash an SSD with SteamOS. It's what those of us on other handhelds do.

presbyterian 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Have you tried Bazzite? It’s basically a drop-in replacement. It’s based on Fedora’s Atomic stuff instead of Arch, but if it wasn’t for the logo at the start, I’d be hard pressed to notice I was using it and not vanilla SteamOS.

p1necone 7 hours ago | parent [-]

I did try using Bazzite but I had weird issues with stuttering/throttling on the RX 7600 which made most games totally unplayable (I confirmed the same hardware worked fine on a windows install). That was a while ago though, it's probably worth me trying again.

Normally I just use regular Fedora/Arch/OpenSUSE for gaming on Linux and never see any issues (albeit that's on a 6800xt at the moment) but I want that consolized experience.

edit: found the thread where I discussed fixing this - few bits of false hope and then I eventually gave up. https://www.answeroverflow.com/m/1314736793190662216

runsonrum 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Have you tried CachyOS? May get the results you are looking for with Desktop or even Handheld addition.

9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
otikik 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Half-Life 3 confirmed

miffy900 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They can afford to make a big song and dance about this because chances are they are not selling the hardware at a loss and they have the regular steam store to offset the short term costs. If they were selling the hardware at a loss, I think their marketing trying to sell this device would be very different.

dathinab 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

they probably will handle it like with the Steam Deck

- no loss

- but small profit margin anyway, to max reduce the price, to max increase adoption/reach

for Valve people using Steam on non Windows platforms is more important then making a big buck from Steam Machines (because this makes them less dependent on Windows, MS has tried(and failed) to move into the direction of killing 3rd party app stores before, and Windows has gotten ... crappy/bloated/ad-infested which is in the end a existential risk for Valve because if everyone moves away from PC gaming they will lose out hugely)

musicale 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Switch was always sold for more than component and manufacturing cost. PS4 crossed the threshold quickly (per Sony iirc?)

However, that ignores R&D costs which presumably have to be amortized, largely through game sales and platform fees. The same is true for other platforms like iOS.

stogot 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Is Apple selling their hardware at a loss?

culi 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No, but I think the primary comparison is meant to be other major consoles (xbox, playstation, nintendo)

tormeh 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Sort of, maybe. I read it more as them assuring everyone that it's still a PC if a customer ends up wanting a plan B.

batiudrami 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I know you are being rhetorical but for reference, of course not, their margin on hardware is 36%

crossroadsguy 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Do we count socks and slings (Pocket™) as hardware?

patrickdavey 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Will it be possible to play retroarch games too? (i.e. the old SNES/NES games) etc. ?

SparkBomb 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Retroarch is already on Steam as well as other emulators.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1118310/RetroArch/

Even if you didn't want to use the Steam versions. Steam OS is essentially a customised Arch Linux and you can install stuff as you would on other Linux distros e.g. via packages and flathub. Basically it is a regular computer underneath. That is why I am very excited about this Steam box.

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/guides/view/how-to-install-ext...

theoldgreybeard 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Isn't SteamOS immutable? Can you layer packages on it like you can with Fedora Silverblue?

entropicdrifter 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You can add packages, but they can be wiped by the updates. Flatpaks work seamlessly and because of the Deck's popularity, most everything you would want is available in flatpak form

pico303 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

On the Steam Deck you boot into desktop mode and it’s a standard Linux. Install what you want. I have Heroic Launcher on mine, running games from GOG and Epic alongside Steam games.

egypturnash 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I sure have installed a bunch of emulators on my Deck. It’s not too hard to get individual games to show up in the main Steam menu, iirc. Haven’t really fiddled with them since initial setup though.

6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
archon810 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And Sundar's too with the latest BS about Android sideloading.

Larrikin 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It may be too late, but its probably a good idea to to shift the language and start saying installing software on your own device. Google likes the term sideloading because it implies its a weird hack to not get all your software from their store.

preisschild 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Tbf at least Android is open source and AOSP itself doesnt have this limitation

0cf8612b2e1e 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Sort of. Google has slowly migrated all essential services into closed source libraries they control.

drnick1 9 hours ago | parent [-]

This isn't quite true. My GrapheneOS phone isn't lacking any "essential service." The only issue is that some apps distributed through the Play Store (or an alternative frontend like Aurora) that depend on proprietary Google libraries won't work. But this is a problem that rests with the developers of the apps, not AOSP per se.

GeekyBear 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is Google going to require that device makers provide unlocked bootloaders?

nobankai 9 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

bnjms 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Tbf I haven’t heard any news that Alphabet is requiring all sellers that paid off phones to be able to change to AOSP.

GeekyBear 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Macs do allow both of those things.

Valve is even borrowing some of the work done for the Mac version of Linux to add support for Proton on ARM hardware.

> Gaming on Linux on M1 is here! We’re thrilled to release our Asahi game playing toolkit, which integrates our Vulkan 1.3 drivers with x86 emulation and Windows compatibility.

https://rosenzweig.io/blog/aaa-gaming-on-m1.html

drnick1 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Gaming on Linux on M1 is here! We’re thrilled to release our Asahi game playing toolkit

That certainly isn't thanks to Apple

GeekyBear 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Apple gets the credit for designing a bootloader that allows you to run a third party unsigned OS without degrading device security when you do boot into MacOS.

Applying the security settings per partition instead of per device is much more flexible, and you don't have to worry about Microsoft controlling which OS signing keys are valid.

SchemaLoad 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's uncharacteristic of them and better than nothing. But simply not blocking the installation of a 3rd party OS should be the bare minimum required by law. Ideally Apple would publish documentation on the hardware so it didn't have to be reverse engineered.

cherryteastain 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> designing a bootloader that allows you to run a third party unsigned OS

Oh thank you master for allowing me to boot a different OS!

Being allowed to run whatever OS you want on your device is a right, not something you should need permission for.

PeaceTed 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Does this mean the 1981 IBM PC gets the same praise? I mean you could install whatever you wanted on that thing.

bastardoperator 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You are allowed and maybe have one option, what's the problem?

jxdxbx 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Tell every game console maker.

rs186 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

For the sake of the argument, the topic here is running software on general computing devices, and most people don't put game consoles in that category. Also, according to my poor knowledge of game console history of past 30 years, game consoles never intend to run arbitrary software, unless you jailbreak the device which is obviously not allowed by ToS.

firen777 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_cluster#Decline

drnick1 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Apple doesn't deserve any credit for that. You should be able to use your hardware in any way you want without asking Apple for permission.

iAMkenough 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Although changes made since have left M3 and newer unsupported by the solution for the first two generations of their design.

groguzt 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Apple allow this kind of thing only on Mac and while also ensuring it does not happen by providing 0 documentation and by not contributing to any outside project. FEX was not made as part of the Asahi Linux project btw. Please inform yourself before making statements

windexh8er 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If this is your take on it, enjoy the surveillance state and walled garden Apple has surrounded you with. There is no comparison with Steam and Valve compared to "gaming" on Apple. Literally apples and oranges. And in this case the Apple is soft and tasteless.

63stack 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There is no "Mac version of Linux"

entropicdrifter 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Asahi Linux is Linux specifically made to run on the M-series Mac hardware, so if that's not a Mac version of Linux, what is?

planetafro 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Bro. I played what I consider a basic game, Inscryption, on my MacBook Pro M4 Pro with 24Gb and that thing sounded like an aircraft taking off. ...meanwhile the weak sauce Steamdeck plays it flawlessly. Fan hardly even spins up. There is a lot of work to do IMO on the Mac front. I doubt Apple cares.

joemi 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I've played much more graphically complex games on my M1 MacBook Pro with 16GB ram and _not_ had that issue. I think the makers/porters of Inscryption are to blame for your issue, not Apple.

arvinsim 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I agree with the other guy. Just plugging in my M1 Max Macbook to an external 4k monitor makes it hot to touch. I don't what they are doing with the cooling on this laptop.

392 4 hours ago | parent [-]

My m4 macbook had a weird flashing external monitor issue. One that eventually led to my monitor appearing to break. But have no fear, it's a known problem since m1 times and not a priority to fix.

usefulcat 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Shrug. I think Minecraft qualifies as basic, and it runs just fine on a five year old M1 Air.

It can also depend on how much effort the developer has put into a particular platform. Macs have not historically had a reputation as being a big market for games, not even in a relative sense, so some developers may not much effort into a Mac port.

yndoendo 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That is not 100% correct. Apple is slowing closing in the walls on a general purpose computer and preventing the bypassing of Gatekeeper with the execution of unsigned applications to _protect the children._ [0] [1] [2] [3]

[0] https://support.apple.com/guide/security/rosetta-2-on-a-mac-...

[1] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/256079635?sortBy=rank

[2] https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/20755

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45907259