> This post has been flagged and hidden, just demonstrating how much this country wants to pretend this isn't happening

It’s so sad to see HN taking the side of violence and oppression with their “head in the sand” approach.

I wonder how different the HN overlords would feel if their own families were being torn apart. This is Disgraceful and inexcusable. The shame.

The only reason this is not currently flagged to oblivion is because it’s the weekend crowd.

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lurk2 19 hours ago | parent | next [-]

[flagged]

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doganugurlu 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

OP mentions US citizens being detained. Commenter is wondering how other US citizens supporting such activities would feel if their family was detained similarly.

Unless you’re talking about citizens of another country that are in favor of these deportations, your comment is plainly illogical.

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lurk2 13 hours ago | parent [-]

> OP mentions US citizens being detained.

The comment I replied to did not mention US citizens being detained. He asked:

> I wonder how different the HN overlords would feel if their own families were being torn apart.

The great-grandparent comment by tedivm brings this up, though tedivm uses the word "abducted" - this could technically cover an illegal detention (which it seems like there have been at least a few), but the common use of the word would imply that US citizens were getting kidnapped and physically removed to another location without release. The number of times this has happened has not been 0, but in terms of documented instances, you're not talking about a very large group of people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Americans_from_...

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nobody9999 10 hours ago | parent [-]

>The number of times this has happened has not been 0, but in terms of documented instances, you're not talking about a very large group of people.

"you're not talking about a very large group of people"? Does that make it acceptable? If so, what's the upper limit on an acceptable number of citizens being disappeared?

That's not a rhetorical question.

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lurk2 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> If so, what's the upper limit on an acceptable number of citizens being disappeared?

I didn’t articulate that properly. There have probably been a non-zero number of illegal detentions, and a few instances (only about a dozen that I’m aware of, most of those preceding the present administration) where citizens have been deported. The ideal number of times either of these things would happen is 0, but there’s no evidence that it’s a systemic problem that would necessitate abolishing immigration enforcement entirely.

	▲	doganugurlu an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Ok. Thanks for clarifying that in your view it’s worth deporting a few citizens to a prison in another country so that we can deport folks at Home Depot parking lots etc.

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UncleMeat 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

My aunt is a republican lobbyist. She is also a drunk. This means that she gets drunk and texts the family things all of the time.

She wants everybody in US cities to suffer. Illegal immigrant, legal immigrant, or citizen. She thinks that people who live in places like Chicago are snooty woke idiots and that it'd be better if cops hit every single person there with a nightstick and took them away from their kids.

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lurk2 4 hours ago | parent [-]

This has nothing to do with my comment.

	▲	UncleMeat 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I do not believe that republicans are motivated by animus against illegal immigrants but instead by animus against a much wider group of people.

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lurk2 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

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testing22321 a day ago | parent [-]

There are plenty of legal US citizens being abducted.

From TFA: US citizens, including women and children, were grabbed from their beds, marched outside without even a chance to dress, zip-tied, and loaded into vans.

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lurk2 a day ago | parent [-]

If we assume the reporting in the linked video was accurate, you’re at most talking about unlawful detention and 4th amendment violations. No one with legal status to reside in the country was reported to have disappeared in the way you are implying.

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testing22321 a day ago | parent [-]

You’re fine with this?

Totally cool when this happens to you and your family?

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lurk2 19 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I’m not at all worried about my family being deported for the simple reason that they have legal status to reside in the places where they reside. I wouldn’t have approached it the same way, but for the sole reason that you end up with citizens being inconvenienced. This post wasn’t about citizens having their rights infringed upon, though; it’s obvious from the editorializing that the author does not believe that America has any fundamental right to sovereignty. The author’s primary concern (and yours, I would venture) is ensuring that foreign nationals are not molested as they continue to reside and work within the United States illegally.

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testing22321 18 hours ago | parent [-]

You couldn’t be more wrong. That is absolutely not my primary concern. It’s not a concern at all.

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lurk2 18 hours ago | parent [-]

So you believe that America has a fundamental right to enforce its immigration laws, and that enforcement of those laws is permissible provided that such enforcement occurs within whatever bounds you deem to be humane, and your only objection to these activities is their real or potential impact on the civil rights of American citizens?

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doganugurlu 16 hours ago | parent [-]

Pretty obviously. In fact, you defined a pretty good standard with the exception of the snark about what the OP deems humane - not deporting to an overcrowded prison in a 3rd country can’t be that hard to agree on.

All evidenced by the fact that higher deportation numbers during Obama created no uproar. You think it’s coz Obama was handsome or smtg?

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lurk2 12 hours ago | parent [-]

> Pretty obviously.

You're telling me it's obvious but I still don't think that you'd agree with the statement that: "your only objection to these activities is their real or potential impact on the civil rights of American citizens." If the infrastructure was in place to ensure each of these cases was thoroughly reviewed (for example, to address refugee claimant status), would you object to the deportation of absolutely all foreign nationals illegally residing in the United States? I have a hunch that the answer is no, and even if it were yes, I don't think it's obvious from the language used in this thread that attitudes towards this issue are stemming from a Ron Paul style concern over the fate of the American Republic and its civil liberties. From the language used, it seems far more likely that these people see immigration law as basically illegitimate, and that their policy position is whatever enables the largest number of illegal residents to remain in the country.

> In fact, you defined a pretty good standard with the exception of the snark about what the OP deems humane

You're reading into the comment. His own standard of what he deems humane would obviously be a prerequisite for him to deem the practices acceptable. Given the inane comment you made about another one of my comments being "plainly illogical" I would request that you keep to the issues and stop tone policing.

> - not deporting to an overcrowded prison in a 3rd country can’t be that hard to agree on.

Evidently not. It's not the most effective policy (which would be targeting employers), but if you don't imprison repeat offenders, the incentive will always be there to try again. For as many of the sob stories you're seeing about a father of six getting deported after working diligently for 30 years as an unlicensed carpenter, there are a dozen guys getting caught at the Home Deport parking lot who will be back in the country within the year. Deportation to these people is an inconvenience, not a Greek tragedy, and the only way you could really dissuade them from it would be incarcerating them so that the penalty is some period where they know they aren't going to have any earnings.

> All evidenced by the fact that higher deportation numbers during Obama created no uproar. You think it’s coz Obama was handsome or smtg?

Obama's higher deportation numbers were largely the result of changes to the definition of what constituted a deportation.

	▲	doganugurlu 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		- No problem with deportation as long as civil liberties aren’t trampled on. - 3rd country prison “because they will be back soon” is _plainly illogical._ What’s the point of deporting if you won’t maintain a border? Are we deporting people for fun and profits? Deportation had been “sending you back home” until now. Sending people to a prison in whatever country you want is so plainly illegal and immoral. Not expecting morality anymore but would you agree with Americans being deported to Iran if they were in Palestine illegally? I am certain you would not.

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lurk2 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]