| ▲ | emtel 10 hours ago |
| Pods work great for me, and I love not having crumbs of powder under the sink, or a bottle of liquid detergent with encrusted drips down the side. It's just gross. They are more expensive, but I buy them on sale at Costco for about $16/100, so at $0.16 per load I really don't care if powdered detergent is only $0.03 per load or whatever. There is clearly a revealed preference for pods among consumers for these things, and "proving" that everyone is wrong for liking them is just not a very interesting exercise imo. |
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| ▲ | tonymet 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| The issue of letting consumers choose the worse product is that the good products get pushed out of the market. Grocery floorspace that was once primarily staples and whole foods is mostly now junkfood. Proper razors have been replaced with disposables. Skincare & toothpaste products contain sodium laureth sulfate , which lathers well, but causes mouth sores and skin irritation. Letting consumers choose usually ends up optimizing superficial and sometimes harmful traits. |
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| ▲ | throwaway2037 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Skincare & toothpaste products contain sodium laureth sulfate , which lathers well, but causes mouth sores and skin irritation.
This is only true for sensitive individuals. Billions of people use these products every day and have no issues. | |
| ▲ | Groxx 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | giant, bright red, almost-flavorless strawberries |
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| ▲ | a_wild_dandan 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| His specific thesis is that pods fundamentally clean worse than powder because they're inherently single-stage releases of detergent in machines designed for two-stage releases. Despite this, he still explicitly says that pods have their uses. So I'm unclear on how his goal is "proving that everyone is wrong." Did we watch different videos? |
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| ▲ | tguvot 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Is there list of machines that designed for two stage releases? | | |
| ▲ | stephen_g 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Even if it doesn't have a specific prewash section you can literally just toss a bit of powder in to the machine, since the prewash happens first. | |
| ▲ | SAI_Peregrinus 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | More interesting would be a list of machines not designed for two-stage release. They probably exist, but it'll be a much smaller list. | |
| ▲ | TiredOfLife 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | All of them | | |
| ▲ | tguvot 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | i have dishwasher that is loaded with cartridge that has 400g of powder. ideal scenario for dispensing detergent at will. yet, never mind what cycle I am using, it dispensed only during main wash cycle. i also had in past machines from 5 different manufacturers. none of them had mechanisms that facilitate 2 releases or pre-wash compartments | | |
| ▲ | TiredOfLife 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > i also had in past machines from 5 different manufacturers. none of them had mechanisms that facilitate 2 releases or pre-wash compartments did you check the manual?
I think in a previous video he mentioned that for machines like that it was stated in manual to add powder for prewash directly in the machine. | | |
| ▲ | tguvot an hour ago | parent [-] | | they all washed dishes just fine without any prewash powder added. somebody "here" even quoted bosch manual that there is no need in prewash powder. i most of the time use cycle that doesn't even has prewash |
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| ▲ | apsurd 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm 1.5 minutes in and I already learned to purge cold water from the pipes before running the dishwasher. Assuming this is evidence based and true, I mean come on! Is it really so alarming to see someone deep dive hard and do the work to mass educate the public? |
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| ▲ | russdill 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | It seems like it would be trivial for the machine to pump water in, turn on the heating element, and wait until it reaches optimum temperature before beginning the cycle. | | |
| ▲ | emtel 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | My understanding is that energy efficiency requirements prevent this. Dishwashers have a fixed energy budget they are allowed to expend, which may not be enough to heat cold tap water up to the optimal cleaning temp. | | |
| ▲ | MarioMan an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | That’s pretty wild, since the energy needed to get it up to temp would still need to be expended on the water heater side. There are no real energy efficiency gains unless they can somehow engineer an effective cold water cleaning. | |
| ▲ | russdill 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So instead it pulls in hot water, but not for long enough to purge the line, so all the 140F water it pulls from the water heater sits in pipes till it cools off. |
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| ▲ | tguvot 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is what most (all?) of machines do. Heat water when they need hot water | | |
| ▲ | totallymike 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Read the manual of your washer. I’m willing to bet it instructs you to run the tap until it’s hot before you start the dishwasher. This is common for American dishwashers, because they can’t get the water hot enough, fast enough, for the prewash cycle | | |
| ▲ | tguvot 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | it doesn't. i also went to american lg website and checked manual of cheapest dishwasher that they have. it doesn't instruct to run water either. it says that if water is not hot enough cycle will run longer. anticipating comments that LG is not american enough, i went to GE and checked manual of cheapest (349) dishwasher. it doesn't instruct to run tap either. it does say just like LG that if water not hot enough, cycles that use hot water will take more time (because water needs to be heated) |
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| ▲ | Groxx 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | depends very much on where you are, unfortunately. in USA, this is definitely not the case, they're almost all incredibly dumb. especially the cheapest-possible models that most renters are forced to use (and renters account for about a third of all households). as a concrete example, the video has a section in it where he shows that his doesn't so any sensing - hot or cold water have exactly the same timing on the heater's use (and resulting water temperature graphs). so like. I agree with you that it should be true, it's simple and cheap to implement and it obviously works better. unfortunately it's not a sane reality for tens (hundreds?) of millions of people. | | |
| ▲ | tguvot 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | i am in usa. rented few times here. both in apartment complexes and houses. cheapest GE dishwasher that i found now - $349 heats water. of course, for video he could go and find some ancient dishwasher that doesn't heat water just to make a point (or maybe he has a broken one ? ), but i think it will be outlier today. | | |
| ▲ | Groxx 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | many (vast majority I've seen) have a heater, but won't heat the water sufficiently for the pre-wash cycle from cold. or, frequently, the second / wash cycle, unless you set it to a high temp mode, and even then it's questionable / often just a timer and not thermometer-based. check your user manual. huge numbers of them tell you to run your nearby tap until it's hot before starting a cycle because of this exact reason. this is also part of the video, and it has been true for literally every washer I've lived with (I read essentially all manuals), including the "good" ones. | | |
| ▲ | tguvot 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | pre-wash cycle meant to remove chunks of food/scraps. not to wash. my dishwasher doesn't bother to heat water for it. but for main wash cycle it heats water. i don't think i ever used dishwasher (american, eu, asian or turkish brands. some of them in country where they are hooked up to cold water) that bothered to heat water for pre-wash cycle. i think it's a feature and not a bug. my dishwasher manual doesn't say to run tap. in fact it says "The dishwasher can be connected to a hot water supply for further economies. If the water is heated by for example, solar panels, this would be energy efficient. However, if your water is heated by electricity we would recommend connection to cold water.
" i also went to american lg website and checked manual of cheapest dishwasher that they have. it doesn't instruct to run water either. it says that if water is not hot enough cycle will run longer. anticipating comments that LG is not american enough, i went to GE and checked manual of cheapest (349) dishwasher. it doesn't instruct to run tap either. it does say just like LG that if water not hot enough, cycles that use hot water will take more time (because water needs to be heated) |
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| ▲ | TiredOfLife 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In the video he mentions that the machines heat for a set time and not for a target temperature. So as majority of machines (in US market) are meant for hot water input. Then if you feed cold water they don't heat it enough |
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| ▲ | lurking_swe 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| if you have powder crumbs under your sink you might need to improve your technique. This reminds me of how some of my house guests will accidentally splash water all over the bathroom counter and even the mirror when they wash up in the morning. I don’t say anything, to be polite, but they clearly lack technique lol. This works for me: 0. store the dishwasher powder (box) under sink. 1. Open dishwasher door 2. grab box, place OVER the opened door. 3. dispense powder into cartridge in door (with spoon, tilting box, etc) 4. put spoon back in box OR fully tilt box back upright. “Crumbs” will drop onto the door, that’s OK. 5. move box back under sink. Even if I was messy, I personally couldn’t make myself spend 5x on pods to avoid cleaning crumbs under the sink once a month. When i think of convenience i think of a dishwasher saving me hours every month. Not saving 10 seconds a month to wipe crumbs under the sink. :-) We clearly all have different preferences and ideas of “convenience”. I respect that. |
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| ▲ | johnfn 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | > if you have powder crumbs under your sink you might need to improve your technique. With a pod there is no technique to be improved. They just work, every single time. | | |
| ▲ | ruraljuror 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I have a bad habit of not fully drying my hands when retrieving pods. The pods all clump together if they get wet. This is one of the many reasons I prefer powder. | | |
| ▲ | throwaway2037 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | "if they get wet". Ok, so don't get them wet. If not wet, did you ever consider using chopsticks to pick one out of the bag/container? That might work well. | | |
| ▲ | recursive 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sounds like a technique improvement. But wait, I was just told there "was no technique to improve". I find it easier to just use the powder. |
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| ▲ | lurking_swe 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And I totally get the appeal of paying for “convenience”! But saving a few seconds a week? Very weak argument i’m afraid. | |
| ▲ | nixpulvis 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Except if you get even a drop of water in the pod storage bin and they fuse together and you have to carefully rip them apart. | |
| ▲ | ThePowerOfFuet 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > They just work, every single time. The point of this series of videos is that for many people they don't. |
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| ▲ | orev 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| With pods you can’t add some detergent to the prewash while adding the rest to the main wash cycle. That’s the thing that makes one of the biggest differences. |
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| ▲ | emtel 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes but my dishes come out spotless with pods, so I don't need to change anything to make them cleaner. | |
| ▲ | selcuka 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You can still add powder to the prewash dispenser. | | | |
| ▲ | seattlematt 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Seems like a market opportunity for dual pod packets. |
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| ▲ | barbazoo 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I used an old container with a 3" lid and a handle, and fill it regularly with the cheap dishwasher powder that I buy in bulk. I put a whole in the screw on lid so I can just pour out the powder. 98% clean and much much cheaper than any pods and much better for the environment because the packaging is all paper. |