>I think i have to repeat: You didnt criticise UBI but gov. abuse of power. Which could already reach deep down into everyones life in plenty of other domains besides UBI. Is any kind of state service by definition bad now?

Ah, here's the difference: You're considering UBI based on the idea that "if governments behave well and to the interest of the people, UBI is fine too". I'm starting from real world governments and their real world behaviors, not fantasy.

In the real world, total control of hundreds of millions of people livelihood via a standardized UBI scheme, is a huge additional government tool for abuse. And the extra reach and power it gives government, and the constant dependency it adds, it's a totally new game.

And that's not compared to some dictatorship or "emergency powers" (which duh!, can be more abusive), UBI would be a steadily available tool for low-burning abuse and subtle control.

>Heck, we could even unnecessarily complicate the issue by putting the UBI responsibility on an extra governmental body, neither state nor private

Ah, yes, like the FED for example. Controlled by government but also unaccountable when it's more convenient to those in power.

>Your pessimistic stance on goverments hinders you from accurately describing problems with it, which means you cant articulate constructive solutions too

Actually my pragmatic stance on governments ("pessimistic" and "optimistic" stances are for people unconnected with reality, of course the latter way more so), which means I'm not in favor in giving them huge guns to extend their power more, especially given their track record.

But if you look at the world around you, and think "it's pretty neat", more power to you.

> I'm starting from real world governments and their real world behaviors, not fantasy.

In the real world, many dictatorships have formed without UBI. Yet you regard UBI as a certain step towards it and even pretend its a hard argument against it, meanwhile the problems root causes you are concerned about are entirely detached from UBI. You are simply projecting.

I cant state it any more clearly. You are a lost cause.