| ▲ | lq9AJ8yrfs a day ago |
| I tried this -- I am undiagnosed, but my kids are diagnosed. On one hand I thought parts over-dramatized, on the other hand I thought parts were watered down. Misophonia for me does not give me any choice. Either the noise stops or I am leaving. If necessary I will explain later. If the noise stops I am possibly leaving anyway in case it starts again. Fortunately in my case the trigger is pretty obscure, like nails on a chalkboard type of rarity -- people don't actually do that so often. The explanations I thought were dramatized. One of the challenges I think people with autism have is trying to explain their reactions and coming up with things that neurotypical people cannot relate to. It is more like reflexes. I'd be slack-jawed if my co-worker asked me to explain why my leg moved when the doctor hits my knee, "it just does that when you hit it that way", "probably something to do with ligaments, or tendons? IDK". Could you make an "undiagnosed" mode where your scores just go up and down? And the options -- when the people team came through at $bigcorp and announced tiny hotdesking, I filed all the necessary paperwork, gave constructive feedback, worked with my manager etc, but started looking for new work immediately and noped out at the first opportunity. The people team was happy to close the file which was growing fat with demerits like not hanging my coat the right way, but my peers and reports were upset. well done people team! This was at a company that professed to be supportive of neurodivergence. |
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| ▲ | palmotea a day ago | parent | next [-] |
| > This was at a company that professed to be supportive of neurodivergence. It's easy to mouth slogans, and modern companies employ teams of specialists in that department. You can't trust their words, which should be assumed to be lies, only their actions (especially their actions when they're under some pressure). Here's an absurdly clear example: I recently listened to these podcasts about Saudi Arabia's Neom project. It is hyper-dysfunctional and was run by a guy who literally bragged about treating his subordinates as slaves trying to work them to death. But all the responses from the project are pitch-perfect corporate "we value our employees," "we follow best practices," etc. https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/neom-pt-1-skiing-in... https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/neom-pt-2-the-emper... |
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| ▲ | sfink a day ago | parent [-] | | If a company professes to be supportive of neurodivergence, it means either (1) they're supportive of neurodivergence; or (2) they are hostile to neurodivergence and have gotten into trouble for it, so have strong motivation to claim that they are supportive. There will probably be written policies and strongly-worded emails that are supportive of neurodivergence, which enable them to continue being hostile to neurodivergence. I would guess there's far more of (2) going around than (1). This is an overly polarized view -- what does "supportive" even mean? What forms are actually deemed permissible? -- but it's probably more right than wrong. It's like the schools with posters everywhere declaring "Zero tolerance for bullying" or "Bully free zone". Except that there is no (1) at those places. Those signs mean they have a problem with bullying and haven't come up with any solutions. |
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| ▲ | ecshafer a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I am not autistic in any way afaik, but "tiny hotdesking" sounds like a torture come up in the seventh circle of hell. > This was at a company that professed to be supportive of neurodivergence. No company is supportive of neurodivergence, if it actually causes a difference. They are supportive if your issue is you need to wear noise cancelling headphones, and they can put your photo on the careers page about how they support neurodivergence. |
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| ▲ | lq9AJ8yrfs a day ago | parent [-] | | Something I am not quite able to compute is why they are so rigid. I paid for a house with enough rooms that I turned one into a generous office. My peers tell me my hobby productivity is off the charts. There is / was no price at which I could solve for an acceptable office environment at this company. At any company I have worked with or heard of. I get that there is back biting and intensive score-keeping, resentment etc, but the act of putting everything on a synchronized linear scale (with sub linear progression) seems cruel. Some people like tchotchkies, some people don't like those esoteric office snacks, some people like mouthwash and shoe polish and fancy towels in the restroom. Why gatekeep it all and shove the same exact bundle of goods down everyone's throats? If they were really minimaxing your next unit of work, this is not an optimal strategy. It's just lazy, a children's tale of how an office might be. | | |
| ▲ | oehpr a day ago | parent [-] | | Because for most people, someone reacting with disinterest for the thing they care about is a rare and upsetting event, not their entire life's experience. That's what it means to be "normal", you align better with your peers. Most people don't need what you need. Most people can work with what you can not. You are choosing to be the exception. You chose to be like this, so unchoose it and stop being a problem. Of course... That's the quiet part. The out loud part is just dismissing everything you say and passing you over for promotion. The objections you have raised, the things you have said. I really understand what you mean. There's evidence all around that the aspects of our experience isn't alien at all. Why can't others see that? At this point I think that not seeing it is necessary mental infrastructure for some people. It's a bridge over an abyss that for us broke. I think the solace I get is that this line of work tends to funnel people of our disposition into it. So we find ourselves less alone than we normally would. |
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| ▲ | novok 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| One problem is you can have 2+ neurodivergents or autistic people with conflicting needs or ideal environments. You can only do so much past a certain point in light of that condition. One needs a bright environment to stay awake, another is sensitive to light. Hyposensitive and hyper sensitive. One needs the volume low and the other high in the same meeting. One gets easily distracted by another stimming that they need to stay focused. It gets frustrating fast. Autistic people can get sick of other autistic people's shit. Pathological demand avoidance can just make it near impossible to work with them in a normal context and on and on it goes. |
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| ▲ | lq9AJ8yrfs 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Those all seem like easy problems to solve. Draw straws and one person dials in from their desk or a phone closet. Take advantage of multiple locations, which are frequently if not always part of the landscape. I had a similar experience, there was a lady on the same floor who was sensitive to light, versus I had a plant that was dying, so I bought a timer and a desk lamp and set it directly under the lamp to run after hours, and we kept the lights dim during the day. At some point the rigidity is just another type of enshittification, there to subtract. Ingrained in their culture and part of their prerogative. Denying them the privilege is an insult that earns greater retribution. Pour encourager les autres. It would literally cost them nothing to be flexible. Solzhenitsyn level material. Suggests a new unit of measure, the Solz, which characterizes how occult and byzantine the rules are and how vindictive and arbitrary the application. Bonus points for tail-eating and Lysenkoist aspects. Stalin era normalized to 1. I had "exceeds" ratings the whole time at this job, btw. I am told my contributions live on 10 years later, I can't say that about most of my work experience. |
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| ▲ | rhubarbtree a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| TIL misophonia. I’ve realised in recent years that I’m quite far on the spectrum. Very obvious when I was young but am exceptionally good at masking now so most people don’t realise. Nowadays I experience misophonia in “attacks” that just come on. Recently I was on public transport and the noise was suddenly so unbearable that I had to get the hell out of there, hadn’t really felt like that since I was a kid. Fight or flight feeling. When I was a kid I had a lot of hearing tests as a result, ASD was not on anyone’s radar. Didn’t realise this had a name. |
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| ▲ | boogieknite a day ago | parent | next [-] | | my sister has this which led to many awful fights that i didnt understand. now i send this graphic to people in order to describe it:
https://scontent.fhio2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/130843014... | | |
| ▲ | whatevertrevor a day ago | parent | next [-] | | This is a question out of genuine curiosity and not intended to minimize misophonia in any way: I do not see any examples of a "naturally occurring" sound there. Is the sound supposed to be human generated in some way? That would feel a bit incongruent with my understanding of it as a pure stimulus response situation. | | |
| ▲ | ygjb a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes, natural sounds do trigger it (for me). The difference is that if it is a natural sound, it becomes a problem to be solved - intermittent dripping from taps, the noise of the wheel in my daughters hamster enclosure, or something tapping a window are specific cases I can cite. Those incidents resulted in a) me learning how to replace a leaking faucet assembly (the taps and faucet were one unit) , b) upgrading to a better, quieter hamster wheel, and c) trimming a tree. When people are the cause it becomes more challenging. People feel attacked when you tell them they are chewing loudly, or they think you are weird when you complain about the sound of the specific pen they are using makes when they are writing on the paper bothers you. Couple misophonia reactions with ADHD justice sensitivity and the emotional reaction can overload my rational comprehension that it is quite normal to make, tolerate, and ignore those sounds to make the stupid fucking meat between my ears feel like I am being targeted by whoever is making the noise. 95% of time I can manage it, but when it gets overwhelming my reactions can be suboptimal (like, wildly inappropriate when I was a kid, but as an adult pulling an Irish goodbye and just leaving, which can be a career limiting move when you are in the workplace). | |
| ▲ | rhubarbtree 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not sure whether you'd consider it natural, but I first noticed this with the sound of running taps. The bathroom was next door to my bedroom and I'd often get up and turn the taps off if someone left the bath running... not sure if anyone ever noticed! Not sure if it's the same for everyone, but for me it's caused by an over-focus on the sound. Once I've noticed it, it's like the sound gets louder and louder... [edit] I'm fairly sure my Dad was on the spectrum, and the sounds young kids make would make him very distressed, shouting or banging etc. so I don't think it's synthetic vs natural sounds. | |
| ▲ | boogieknite a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | interesting observation your sibling also made. its commonly described as making the sufferer IRATE at the person causing of the sound which matches your comment anyone who experiences willing to shed light? id guess if the sufferer expects we all dislike certain sounds, causing them intentionally is especially hateful? | | |
| ▲ | fluoridation a day ago | parent [-] | | Another observation is that they're either idle sounds (pen clicking, finger tapping) or necessary secondary sounds made during some activity. It's literally impossible to unwrap a piece of candy without making some noise, and damn near impossible to stir a liquid without the stirrer hitting the container once. >id guess if the sufferer expects we all dislike certain sounds, causing them intentionally is especially hateful? I think it's pointless to attempt to look at it rationally, given the reactions I've heard seem entirely irrational and disproportionate. I remember one time I was at work and a coworker on the opposite end of the room was using what I thought was the exact same model of mechanical keyboard I was using, with blue switches. I had never realized just how loud those things were until then. I kept glancing at him and could feel myself getting unreasonably annoyed, but I really had no grounds to say anything under any circumstance, given I had been using those very same switches in that same office very recently. What really struck me was how the same noise would sound pleasing when I made it and annoying when someone else made it, and I wondered if I had bothered someone with my typing, or if it was just me. I don't know if I'll use my own keyboard with clicky switches if I share an office with someone again. | | |
| ▲ | imp0cat 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Silent keyboards (and mice!) are a blessing; and not just in an office environment. | | |
| ▲ | fluoridation 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | I wanted to repair a HyperX mouse, but the switches I needed weren't available. I bought ones on a gamble because they were cheap, but they didn't fit, so I gave them away to a friend, and he used them to mod a cheapo mouse. It felt wrong to me for the clicks to make so little noise. He seemed happy with it, though. | | |
| ▲ | imp0cat 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Right, there is definitely a short learning curve where you have to get used to the fact that your mouse button is not making any noise. It almost feels like it must be faulty, but it's not, it's just silent. |
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| ▲ | lupire 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's like hearing one side of a phone conversation, where the utterances are nonsensical because you are missing half the context When you are typing, the clicking is concordant with your finer movements and the text you are writing. When someone else is typing, it's not. |
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| ▲ | fluoridation a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Interesting how they're all noises people make. It's not chirping birds, or running motors, or anything that could occur when no one else is around. | | |
| ▲ | mitthrowaway2 a day ago | parent [-] | | This was an interesting piece on misophonia. It seems like it goes beyond just the sounds alone and it may depend on a perception of intentionality behind the sound. https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/misophonia-beyond-sensory-s... | | |
| ▲ | magicalhippo 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | My SO has misphonia, and strongly reacts to many sounds I make like smacking while eating or tapping my foot while thinking. She can also react strongly to noises outside the home, like if a car idles loudly outside. She works in a kindergarten, and so I asked how she tolerates all those kids making noises while eating and such, given how adverse she is towards the sounds I make. She said it didn't bother her the slightest as she knew the kids couldn't help it, and the reason my smacking annoyed her for example was because she knew it could be avoided if I just were more careful. | |
| ▲ | boogieknite a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | great share. the authors so introspective it almost seems like a straw man vehicle. i mean that in a good way, i think? not used to people writing about their shortcomings matter-of-factly like this | | |
| ▲ | fluoridation a day ago | parent [-] | | As in, something designed to facilitate setting up misrepresentations of other people's arguments? That doesn't sound like a good thing. |
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| ▲ | rhubarbtree 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | omg tick tick tick. Does everyone have this to some extent? Or is it really only a thing neurospicy folks experience? I have to run away from my wife when she's chewing loudly sometimes, the rage is real. I've just realised that my hatred of foly in films is another symptom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foley_(sound_design)) - can't watch films where this is overdone. As others mentioned, noise cancelling headphones bring me so much peace. | |
| ▲ | lupire 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Now I need a screechy audio that explains the "misovisia" I experience from seeing that graphic. |
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| ▲ | R_D_Olivaw a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I carry silicone putty ear plugs with me pretty much all the time. They are very squishy and I can place then in my ear and depending on how thick I make them, they have varying levels of blocking out sound. Super useful if I want extra blocking or just a little light blocking so I can still hear things around me, but dampened. They have been a life changer for me. The best kind I've found are Mack's. Maybe they would help you too. | | |
| ▲ | beacon294 a day ago | parent [-] | | Ahh I can't stand that pressure feeling, makes me take them out instantly!! | | |
| ▲ | freehorse 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | ANC over-the-ear headphones can also do a very good job against certain kinds of noises, esp in higher frequences. |
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| ▲ | idiotsecant a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I also thought I was exceptionally good at masking. Turns out I was exceptionally good at showing a differently weird version of myself that was still quite clearly weird. | |
| ▲ | joshcsimmons a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | I gaslit myself over it for so long. It makes me see red when I hear open-mouth chewing noises. Totally illogical. | | |
| ▲ | sfink a day ago | parent [-] | | Oh wow, I was just feeling grateful that I don't have misophonia, but then you had to mention chewing noises. I had that for decades. It wasn't all the time, but it didn't have to be loud or open-mouth or anything. It would just switch on and I couldn't hear or think about anything else. I daydreamed doing violent things to make the person stop, even when I logically knew it wasn't even slightly loud or unusual or ill-intentioned. It almost never happens anymore, thankfully. Once every other month or so. (Note that I am not autistic, or at least undiagnosed and my guess is that I wouldn't be. I just have some fairly mild autistic tendencies. I have a toe on the spectrum, or something. Those tendencies have a pretty dramatic impact on my life, but I think in a mostly neurotypical way -- we boring people can have similar problems too!) | | |
| ▲ | SchemaLoad a day ago | parent [-] | | I have to feel that most people find this unpleasant to some level since "eat with your mouth closed" is such universal manors that gets drummed in to you as a child. But I guess the difference is if you find it gross vs if it sends you in to a fuming rage at the smallest exposure. |
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| ▲ | qwertytyyuu 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| yeah the misophonia one confused me too. Why is the radio even on, why does turning if off use up so much energy? |
