| ▲ | giantg2 a day ago |
| "Since you've decided to not disclose your autism at work, you'll be raw dogging it today and every other day. This seems marginally better than the alternative of being potentially passed over for promtotions or raises." I was passed over without disclosure. When I did disclose, they tried to fire me. It would be great if they add a feature where you're told for a decade by peers, leads, and managers that you're at the next level, but never actually get there. Then they try firing you while the internal interviews give feedback about how you're likely overqualified for roles at your level. How's your mental health doing after that? The game should add a part about wanting to get hit by a bus during your commute so you cana avoid the torture. |
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| ▲ | bunderbunder a day ago | parent | next [-] |
| It's extra fun when you manage to get positive feedback from colleagues and hit all your concrete performance expectations, but then at review time you still get poor marks because it's a stack ranking system, so, as far as your manager is concerned, there was never a realistic option to give one of the limited supply of good scores to you instead of one of the people who have enough spoons left at the end of the work day to permit some enthusiasm for the quarterly optional-but-actually-mandatory after-hours team Whirlyball outing. |
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| ▲ | nomdep a day ago | parent [-] | | Stack ranking has got to be one of the dumbest and most toxic ideas in tech. Pitting teammates against each other like that? It's a guaranteed way to kill off mentoring, knowledge sharing, and any real sense of collaboration. | | |
| ▲ | palmotea a day ago | parent [-] | | > Stack ranking has got to be one of the dumbest and most toxic ideas in tech. Not just tech, but business in general. |
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| ▲ | joshcsimmons a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| @giantg2 dude I feel you. I've never disclosed but I've heard about people being retaliated against for doing so over the years. I wish I could have added this story knot. I'll open source it soon and you'll see how crufty dealing with inkle is https://www.inklestudios.com/ in JS. Credit to the folks working on inkle but something like this is pushing the tech beyond what it says on the tin. |
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| ▲ | immibis a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Non-autistic people also get this. It's in your salarypayer's best interest to keep you thinking you're on the precipice of getting a raise (so you work harder), but without actually giving you one (so they don't have to pay up). This is just ordinary capitalist paperclip-maximization, and we need way more people to realize their employers are not their friends, and it's a simple exchange of money for work where at least one party employs people whose entire job is to shift the exchange rate in their favour while convincing you they aren't. |
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| ▲ | sim7c00 a day ago | parent | next [-] | | wanna say you are right. maybe the impact is different on neurodivergent, thats hard to have hard data on. HRs job is litterally to use a certain budget to fit all the ppl in, thats why they never give a raise if you dont ask, unless they need to give it to cover other risks (retention). best lesson for me was an HR manager explaining it to me, after finally after 3 years i asked pretty please to give a lil raise, i was still trainee after all that time. he smiled and said he thought id never ask. made me senior on the department matching my input. and told me this exact fact. He said, why should i give you a raise if you seem happy where ur at? never complain, never ask, never get. its harsh but its good to understand certain hashness. Then you can work around it, step over that bridge, and be more active in tracking your input, their expectations, and showing them the mismatch deservant of a raise or promotion. its often peoples shyness or false expectations that get them in such a situation where they feel very under valued. they are because they under value themselves or dont know how to translate/express their value to another persons perspective. another harsh truth. Especially if you are neurodivergent, the way you see things and another is further apart, so your words need to do more to reconcile that difference to generate mutual understanding. in an ideal world this would not happen or be needed, ofcourse. but we dont live in an ideal world, and there is no switch to flip to make it an ideal world. | |
| ▲ | giantg2 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It might be experienced by non-disabled people, but I would say it disproportionately affects people with autism. Promotions are political and most people on the spectrum are at a disadvantage in the political realm due to the way ASD tends to affect social behavior etc. I've seen everyone other dev that joined around my time is at least 1-2 levels further than me. We can see these impacts in data for things like disability pay gap research. | |
| ▲ | tptacek a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's a Manichean perspective that probably applies in a lot of workplaces, but definitely doesn't uniformly apply to competitive software jobs. In a competitive software shop, your employer is probably motivated more by retention, churn, and motivation concerns than they are over whether they can hold on to the extra comp money it would cost to raise your level. Losing a performing developer is very expensive. I don't doubt at all that a lot of software developers have had the experience you describe, but when you describe it as intrinsic to the economics of commercial software development, I think you're bound to end up in some weird places. | | |
| ▲ | bradlys a day ago | parent [-] | | But practically every "competitive" software job uses stack ranking that's mostly centered on an individual team or a few teams where 20% of the people have to be given a bad rating regardless of objective performance. | | |
| ▲ | tptacek a day ago | parent [-] | | I think stack ranking sucks ass and I agree that it's prevalent but even stack ranking isn't well-modeled by an executive team looking to squeeze every penny out of each employee. Some of the most notorious stack rankers also have some of the most notoriously generous comp packages. | | |
| ▲ | bradlys a day ago | parent [-] | | I'm not seeing TC having gone up over the last 7-8 years with those "notoriously generous comp packages" places. Your typical senior eng at FAANG is still getting $350-450k/yr TC. Yet, inflation has changed a lot and the stocks at these companies have skyrocketed. They're only raising the bar in terms of competition for employees to stick with the company and not with their compensation. | | |
| ▲ | tptacek a day ago | parent [-] | | I lose interest in salary equity discussions when the entire range we're discussing is more than I currently make. :) | | |
| ▲ | immibis 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | I've been rate-limited for comments far more useful than this one. |
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| ▲ | furyofantares a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is an "all lives matter" flavor of comment. Discussing difficulties that autistic folks often have, which are usually exacerbated by autistic traits and struggles but not caused by autism, does not mean nobody else has those troubles. But it's common and extremely frustrating for anyone neurodivergent to be told "but everyone feels that way" whenever they discuss any of their issues. | |
| ▲ | novemp a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The difference, I think, is that non-autistic people aren't as inclined to believe the same lie when it's told over and over for years. | | |
| ▲ | boogieknite a day ago | parent [-] | | my personal experience is this is usually something i see well meaning religious people caught up in. when ive met autistic people in similar situations they have been vocally agitated and frustrated by it, which i would say is the first step in learning to work around it |
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| ▲ | palmotea a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > This is just ordinary capitalist paperclip-maximization, and we need way more people to realize their employers are not their friends But I've repeatedly told over the years by clever libertarian software engineers that I don't need a union because it's better to just go to the boss with your concerns, instead of making things so adversarial. | |
| ▲ | SantalBlush a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Blue collar workers have understood this for a long time, and even occasionally took up arms against their employers. It's the white collar folks who are just starting to figure this out. |
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| ▲ | toasted-subs a day ago | parent | prev [-] |
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| ▲ | Freak_NL a day ago | parent [-] | | Apple? Now I'm curious. I mean, they suck obviously (but so do a host of other big tech companies), but what has Apple done to you specifically? |
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