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fkyoureadthedoc 3 days ago

> The new patent-pending technique

> “Every photo carries hidden spectral information waiting to be uncovered. By extracting it, we can turn everyday photography into science.”

And with our patent, extract rent from anyone who wants to do it!

moritonal 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

That's a bit of a bad faith take. You were welcome to go spend the years(?) this chaps dedicated to putting together the research required to build this. If it works, let him enjoy the fruits of labour.

dtj1123 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Sure, if he'd come up with this primarly using his own resources and time, but he discovered this whilst being paid to conduct research at a public university, a form of institution which is explicitly intended to disseminate knowledge. Society should enjoy the fruits of its investment.

brookst 2 days ago | parent [-]

Would the university have been willing to invest in the exotic printer and the labor to do the work without the potential upside of a patent?

It’s very easy to declare that someone else “should” do a bunch of work and spend a bunch of money for the altruistic benefit of society.

SequoiaHope 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Patents do more than let you enjoy the fruits of your labor - the market already allows for that. Patents use the force of law to bar anyone else who might have discovered the same thing from building upon it.

spookie 3 days ago | parent [-]

Imagine you are just a dude, you did all this work, and go to "market".

You are just a dude, therefore business grows slowly.

You gather enough attention that some corporation with a lot of bling just goes and copies your thing.

Your business fails.

SequoiaHope 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Once can just as trivially construct an argument demonstrating the issue with patents but the problem with this style of argument is that patents are not a simple thing. They have global far reaching effects. The government distributing a monopoly on information is a serious interference with the market, and due to patent harmonization efforts across the world, one person filing a patent in New Jersey affects even people in Kenya and Turkey and Thailand. The arguments for patents are often, as I see it, based on a deeply flawed understanding of the motivations of innovators and the affects of open information on innovation. For example most arguments in favor of patents cannot explain how open source works, and so are clearly incomplete or outright wrong.

fluoridation 3 days ago | parent [-]

>For example most arguments in favor of patents cannot explain how open source works, and so are clearly incomplete or outright wrong.

Can you clarify this? Just curious about what you mean.

SequoiaHope 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I often speak to people who say that no one would innovate without government-secured monopoly on information, and this is clearly false as open source works without this monopoly. As such it seems to me that people who make that claim don’t understand how innovation works.

Often I say that if we phased out patents and other IP restrictions, then investments would not stop but they would change from less frequent large investments to more frequent small investments. As long as designs can stay secret until release, there will always be first mover advantage and brand recognition. But you might get smaller investments to build out manufacturing for the next year, rather than bigger longer term investments. The flip side is that stagnant innovators who got lucky once will be subsumed by more agile competitors who can better deliver those innovations to market.

Thus investment and innovation wouldn’t stop - markets still ensure certain advantages for innovators - but the nature of investment and innovation wouldn’t shift towards more incremental moves and more diverse actors. A major upside to this is that those best suited to scale an existing nascent technology would be free to compete at doing so.

It should be noted that even die hard capitalists are against IP restrictions [1] as they are a massive government investment in the market. So proponents of IP restrictions must reconcile their arguments in favor of this government intervention with their potential interest in free markets.

[1] https://youtu.be/GZgLJkj6m0A

fluoridation 2 days ago | parent [-]

Yeah, I do agree with that. Same with the rationale for copyright.

brookst 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean it sure sounds like the old “science can’t explain how bumblebees fly, therefore science is incomplete or outright wrong” argument. Which is of course just false.

SequoiaHope 2 days ago | parent [-]

I replied so feel free to read that.

serf 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

you have it entirely backwards; patents dont protect just-a-dude, they protect the corporation.

how?

just-a-dude doesn't have a team of patent attorneys sitting in his back office waiting for work.

fkyoureadthedoc 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On the other hand those same corporations can generate, file, and litigate more patents than just a dude could ever hope to.

It's 2007. Just-a-dude has a great idea, he notices customers to his website often buy just one item, so he'll let them do that with one simple click. What's this, he's just received a cease and desist? Sorry bro, Amazon patented that 10 years ago.

BolexNOLA 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean we’re basically getting the same result. Tons of businesses, not to mention patent trolls, constantly harass individuals and small businesses trying to get their foot in the door or just run a small, sustainable business. Hell forget my business failing, it’s possible I’ll never even get to try my idea out!

OutOfHere 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

There is not much labor here. Anyone should be able to engineer a model by using deep learning over pictures that map raw images to their hyperspectral variants in various settings, including in adversarial settings that are intended to confuse. All you would need is a sufficiently large and diverse dataset.

brookst 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I hate the new rhetorical use of the word “rent”

fkyoureadthedoc a day ago | parent | next [-]

I seriously doubt using the word rent in reference to patent license royalties is new

reaperducer 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

"Rent-seeking" is square 3B on my HN bingo card. See also:

  Regulatory capture
  Late-stage capitalism
  Walled garden
  An/The unreasonable...
  So...
  Period. Full stop
  I Mean…
  Streisand effect
  orthogonal
  trivial
  non-trivial
  {$person}'s Law | Axiom | Razor | Paradox
  Objectively
  Ship of Theseus
  Gatekeeping
brookst 2 days ago | parent [-]

It’s like the opposite of traditional tech buzzword bingo where you raise VC for blockchain crypto AI agents.

Instead, anything you don’t like is a rent-seeking late stage capitalism narrative.