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MangoToupe 3 days ago

At some point we’re going to need a better place to put videos than YouTube. The lack of any democratization of bulk storage is beginning to be a real problem on the internet.

Yes, we have archive.org. We need more than that, though.

I’m sure there’s some distributed solution like IPFS but I haven’t seen any serious attempt to make this accessible to every day people.

coldpie 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> The lack of any democratization of bulk storage is beginning to be a real problem on the internet.

There are many thousands of paid hosting services, feel free to pick one. It turns out hosting TB of data for free is a pretty tricky business model to nail down.

superkuh 3 days ago | parent [-]

There have been plenty of free distributed hosting services for the web that worked perfectly (popcorn time, etc, etc). It's just that every time they become popular they are attacked legally and shut down. The problem is not technical, or even resource based, the problem is legal. Only a mega-corp can withstand the legal attacks.

And even if the legal attacks could be mitigated most people would still use youtube because they're there for the money (or for people who are there for the money). They are not there for a video host. Youtube enables distribution of money and there's no way that any government would let any free system distribute money without even more intense legal, and indeed physically violent, attacks.

zenmac 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are: peertube, odysee, minds, rumble, bitchute web torrent)...

It is the same reason why people just can't get off IG. Network effect and in YT case a lot of disk space and bandwidth.

MangoToupe 3 days ago | parent [-]

I don’t think network effect matters much if you’re not trying to advertise the content. Organizations can just link to it from their site.

I admit I haven’t looked into peertube, and I didn’t think that rumble was any better than YouTube. I don’t recognize the others. Thank you; I’ll resurvey.

zenmac 3 days ago | parent [-]

yeah there are alternatives for sure, but it takes time to discover them. But many search engine are offering searching of videos. So may just be a good idea to start building a public index of all the videos.

And it is 2025, the HN crowd here can usually just deploy their video to CDN. Many business are also just hosting their own videos.

BTW forgot to mention Odyssey underlying protocol is https://lbry.com

And seems like there are past article about it on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24594663

MangoToupe 2 days ago | parent [-]

> And it is 2025, the HN crowd here can usually just deploy their video to CDN. Many business are also just hosting their own videos.

This is a very bad standard and not indicative of the capabilities of the average small-to-medium business.

Nonetheless, I agree it's more complicated than I made it seem—YouTube is not an insurmountable problem for a determined actor.

bob1029 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you want to compete with YT you need to basically build AWS S3 in your own data centers. You'd have to find a way to make your service run cheaper than google can if you wanted to survive. You'd have to get very scrappy and risky. I'd start with questions like: how many 9s of durability do we actually need here? Could we risk it until the model is proven? What are the consequences for losing cat videos and any% speed runs of mario64? That first robotic tape library would be a big stepwise capex event. You'd want to make sure the whole thing makes sense before you call IBM or whoever for a quote.

ndriscoll 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Games Done Quick has raised 10s of millions for charity. I suspect they could raise a few thousand for a few dozen TB of nvme storage if they wanted to host a speedrun archive.

warkdarrior 3 days ago | parent [-]

YouTube get 700,000 hours of video uploaded every day. That's 4.3 PB added per day. You may need more than a few dozen TB... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskProgramming/comments/vueyb9/how_...

ndriscoll 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

They don't get 700,000 hours of any particular niche though, so it's easy enough for small groups to compete with youtube for their needs.

archargelod 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

That's because youtube allows almost everything sfw to be hosted on their platform and without any limits.

I can imagine if they've added rate-limiting, e.g. 30GB per IP per week - that would've reduced amount of crap, literal white noise and spam/scam videos uploaded to Youtube in several magnitudes. Another strategy is, if a video doesn't get 1000 views after a week - it's deleted.

jsheard 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> If you want to compete with YT you need to basically build AWS S3 in your own data centers. You'd have to find a way to make your service run cheaper than google can if you wanted to survive.

YouTube's economy of scale goes way beyond having their own datacenters, they have edge caches installed inside most ISP networks which soak up YT traffic before it even reaches a Google DC. It would take a staggering amount of investment to compete with them on cost.

mschuster91 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The problem with bulk storage is that it will be abused at large scale.

CSAM peddlers, intellectual property violators, unconsensual sexual material ("revenge porn"), malware authors looking for places to exfiltrate stolen data, propagandists and terrorists, the list of abusers is as long as it is dire.

And for some of these abuser classes, the risk for any storage service is high. Various jurisdictions require extremely fast and thorough responses for a service provider to not be held liable, sometimes with turnaround times of 24 hours or less (EU anti terrorism legislation), sometimes with extremely steep fines including prison time for responsible persons. Hell, TOR exit node providers have had their homes raided and themselves held in police arrest or, worse, facing criminal prosecution and prison time particularly for CSAM charges - and these are transit providers, not persistent storage.

And all of that's before looking on the infrastructure provider side. Some will just cut you off when you're facing a DDoS attack, some will bring in extortionate fees (looking at you, AWS/GCE/Azure) for traffic that may leave you in personal bankruptcy. And if you are willing to take that risk, you'll still run the challenge of paying for the hardware itself - storage isn't cheap, 20TB of storage will be around 200€ and you want some redundancy and backups, so the actual cost will rather be 60-100€/TB plus the ongoing cost of electricity and connectivity.

That's why you're not seeing much in terms of democratization.

MangoToupe 3 days ago | parent [-]

Maybe that’s true, but YouTube is just absolutely miserable to use in every way. There’s got to be better options.

mschuster91 2 days ago | parent [-]

Well, you're welcome to create one if you have the money for it and the appetite for getting your home raided by the FBI because some moron used your service to promote terrorism or CSAM.

Youtube can get away with its shit service and utter lack of sensible moderation simply by being under Google's roof and the effort required to start up a competitor.

pmdr 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I’m sure there’s some distributed solution like IPFS

Almost 25 years on the internet and I have not been able to download anything from IPFS. Does one need a PhD to do so?

johnisgood 3 days ago | parent [-]

Same. Are we missing information, or is it really stagnating and not being utilized for whatever reasons?

reaperducer 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I keep seeing ads on TV for Photobucket (Which I thought was dead) for 1TB of storage for either free, or $5, depending on the ad.

Maybe there is an opportunity for that company to expand.

a96 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Also, archive.org is in magaland, so that is a very endangered service.