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SilverElfin 4 days ago

Apple doesn’t care. Look at how bad iTunes or iCloud or whatever is. Especially on windows. Their software is terrible. They focus mostly on what makes money. And the support is non existent. All you can do is shout in the forums but some Apple apologist will respond rudely or with some unhelpful generic tips that do nothing.

scuff3d 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

A while back I listlened to a podcast where Ted Bendixson talked about what a nightmare trying to build for IOS outside XCode was (he did a write up about it here https://tedbendixson.substack.com/p/the-horror-of-making-you...). At the time I assumed it was malicious on Apple's part, "we want you working in our ecosystem and if you won't we are going to make it absolutely miserable". After reading this maybe it really was just incompetence.

crossroadsguy 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I couldn't agree more - the not caring part. But then you should try to do an app in the Android code/build/test/publish ecosystem. As someone who had/has to use both os/dev ecosystems for work, I often wondered which one is worse, and what bothered me is that I couldn't conclude.

So in this great duopoly, these two tech giants constantly compete to become more and more hostile and pathetic to both the users and the developers.

> Apple apologist will respond rudely or with some unhelpful generic tips

Aha. The "you are holding it wrong", "this is how the Lord intended it to behave", "buy a new .." … fruit company fan base phenomena.

Apple's majority of buyers aren't their users or consumers; they are Apple fans and supporters. If Apple had consumers like Android, Linux, or Windows, either they would have fixed their act or been in the ground by now.

ryandrake 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Apple's majority of buyers aren't their users or consumers; they are Apple fans and supporters. If Apple had consumers like Android, Linux, or Windows, either they would have fixed their act or been in the ground by now.

Companies who develop these fandoms live life on easy mode. You can do anything you want, abuse customers, raise prices, make promises and never deliver on them, lock people into your ecosystem, and there will always be an army of white knights out there ready-at-the-keyboards, defending the company. I honestly don't know how people get to the point where their identity is so wrapped up in a single company that they wake up in the morning and say to themselves, I'm going to be a company apologist for free and respond rudely to people, even though the company doesn't and will never even know who I am!

rkomorn 4 days ago | parent [-]

They probably wake up the exact same way as the people who bring their toxic attitudes to Linux, open source projects, stack overflow-type sites, IRC/Discord, etc.

Being a rude apologist for NixOS isn't actually morally superior to being a rude apologist for Apple.

exe34 4 days ago | parent [-]

> Being a rude apologist for NixOS isn't actually morally superior to being a rude apologist for Apple.

no, but it is cheaper and feels morally superior!

rkomorn 4 days ago | parent [-]

My NixOS-running laptop agrees.

exe34 4 days ago | parent [-]

It's also technically superior!

rkomorn 4 days ago | parent [-]

Look I don't wanna out-superior you but I even use flakes and HomeManager.

The superiority is through the roof (along with the time it takes to update and rebuild-switch).

exe34 4 days ago | parent [-]

Real men use raw nix. I don't need those new-fangled flakes and HomeManager.

Seriously though, I just never figured out the first one because I can't figure out where to start and the latter I don't really need as my home area is disposable - the data lives in a data/ partition and the dot files I care about are simply ln -s into a git repo in data/.

rkomorn 4 days ago | parent [-]

I'm very on the fence about HomeManager.

Typically, the functionality for managing home configs provided by raw Nix isn't good enough.

On the other hand, the functionality provided by HomeManager basically requires knowing both the package's config language and HomeManager's take on it.

There's also the fact that adding HomeManager basically gives you two ways of doing a lot of the same things. I don't find that great.

My ultimate goal is to have a single source of intent for my laptop setup, so having to manage configs separately (even as raw files) goes counter to that. I'd (very personally for this one use case) prefer my entire config to be in a single nix file without any manually composed dot files.

Flakes... I only started using because it was one of two paths to get secure boot working and I liked it better than the alternative.

Overall, I'm also very conflicted about NixOS. I liked the promises, but in practice, it falls short for me.

exe34 a day ago | parent [-]

> Overall, I'm also very conflicted about NixOS. I liked the promises, but in practice, it falls short for me.

for me, I've learnt to live with the limitations - anything I can't get to run on nixos I just won't bother with. anything that does run will probably run forever.

in a way it's similar to switching to a completely different OS - the benefits (e.g. stability, enormous package repo and documentation, etc) far outweigh the issues. I couldn't live with systems that can be broken anymore. well I do on a server, but that's more of a toy than something that needs to be reliable.

pjmlp 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Besides the rediculous hardware requirements of Android Studio, far beyond any other Java based IDE, we have a NDK experience that feels like a 20% side project from Android team, because back in Android 2.0 days they were forced to actually allow developers to write C and C++ code, otherwise there would be no games.

Even Symbian C++ across Metrowerks and Caride, felt a much developer friendly experiece than NDK has ever been.

distances 4 days ago | parent [-]

I do Android development and recently upgraded my desktop as 32GB is no longer enough for Android development. I put 96GB in the new machine, and am still not fully confident that it's future proof.

pjmlp 4 days ago | parent [-]

Ouch, that bad? Thanks for the update.

distances 4 days ago | parent [-]

To be fair, it will depend on the project. I do it professionally for multiple clients, so I get to see also the pathological end of the spectrum.

lmz 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Mobile toolchains have always been awful. Symbian's or BlackBerry's weren't any better.

pjmlp 4 days ago | parent [-]

NDK makes me miss Symbian, which is why I rather put up with the limitations of WebGL and WebGPU, than putting up with NDK ever again.

araes 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Personal view on the Xcode issue is this part of your comment:

> lock people into your ecosystem

There's no real alternative to Xcode, if you're going to develop for Apple, you pretty much just have to take the dive, buy Apple hardware, and use Xcode. You don't really know what you're getting into before you get there, and by then you've got sunk cost and just have to trudge through. Somebody a while back had a comment that kind of epitomized it (paraphrased from bad memory): "I thought I was their target customer. I'm not. I'm not sure who their target customer is. Who is this even written for?"

_mlxl had a pretty funny one from 4 years ago also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26932848

  > (...) I think its left a little bit of taint on my soul. It is unfathomably bad.  Apple keep bolting stuff on to it.  It's slow, broken in numerous ways, depends on file formats that aren't used anywhere outside of Apple and completely undocumented. It is such a painful tool to use.
Maybe as an Xcode user you have a better perspective, yet Android was actually better personally than most of the development ecosystems from my own perspective. Actually managed to at least publish three apps. Never went anywhere, yet that's a different issue.

Had a comment on another thread's Switch 2 development complaints, re. the few I have tried - Nintendo, Steam, and Google.

Nintendo - The process itself is opaque, confusing, and difficult to determine your status or progress, even large companies have difficulty.

Steam - Signing up and putting launch title info was difficult, yet Wayyyyy easier and clearer to navigate. Tools are kind of a mess, and figuring out everything you need is a challenge. (comments on the SDK are at least funny sometimes)

  // This is really, really bad.  We're sorry.  But it's been this way for
  // a long time now and it's scary to change it, as there may be others that
  // depend on it.

  // Recommended amount
  // Quite a bit
  // Practically everything
  // Wall of text, detailed packet contents breakdown, etc

  /* Prefer user version of the interface.  But if it isn't found, then use gameserver one.  Yes, this is a completely terrible hack */

  // This totally sucks, but this information can't be gleaned any
  // other way
  // (200 lines later) actually no way to do this yet.

  // um, yeah, clipping is enabled (?)
  // (500 lines later) ???? is clipping ever turned off ??

  // hush for now, less spew
Google Play - Dramatically easier to sign up. Much clearer steps, progress, and timeline for release. Inclusions to actually release, much clearer. Actually managed to release three products.

  Nintendo "How do I even sign up?" Steam "Great, signed up, how do I release something?" Google "Easy sign-up, somewhat easy release of products, eventually got three out the door. Your products have been removed for (mumble mumble legalese)"
anthonypasq 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

i mean in a way xcode is incredibly valuable product considering anyone who wants to publish to the app store (where they collect insane rent for zero effort) needs to interact with it.

bmitc 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Apple probably views the product as the privilege to develop and publish apps.

marklubi 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

I can confirm this. Have a relative that works for Apple. Made the mistake of complaining in front of her about their take on sales (they make six-figures annually from my app). She went off on how much they give us (including Xcode) for the privilege of having an app on their phones.

Still don't have a contact there. Would have thought I would at least get someone there to talk with if issues come up.

3 days ago | parent | prev [-]
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em-bee 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

so it's the wrong incentive. apple has no need to make it better because people are forced to use it anyways.

christkv 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I once had a glimpse of their internal pages for the app store and music store about 7-8 years ago and the design was outdated in 1999