I'm surprised by this take. I love YAML for this use case. Easy to write and read by hand, while also being easy to write and read with code in just about every language.

▲ baq 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

YAML is a serialization format. I like YAML as much as I like base64, that is I don't care about it unless you make me write it by hand, then I care very much.

GitHub Actions have a lot of rules, logic and multiple sublanguages in lots of places (e.g. conditions, shell scripts, etc.) YAML is completely superficial, XML would be an improvement due to less whitespace sensitivity alone.

▲ pacoWebConsult 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sure, easy to read, but quite difficult to /reason/ about in your head, let alone have proper language server/compiler support given the abstraction over provider events and runner state. I have never written a CI pipeline correctly without multiple iterations of pushing updates to the pipeline definition, and I don't think I'm alone on that.

▲ shadowgovt 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Easy to write and read until it gets about a page or two long. Then you have to figure out stuff like "Oh gee, I'm no nesting layer 18, so that's... The object.... That is.... The array of.... The objects of....."

Plus it has exactly enough convenience-feature-related sharp edges to be risky to hand to a newbie, while wearing the dress of something that should be too bog-simple to have that problem. I, too, enjoy languages that arbitrarily decide the Norwegian TLD is actually a Boolean "false."

▲ TheDong 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Easy to write and read by hand, while also being easy to write and read with code in just about every language

Language implementations for yaml vary _wildly_.

What does the following parse as:

    some_map:
      key: value
      no: cap

If I google "yaml online" and paste it in, one gives me:

{'some_map': {False: 'cap', 'key': 'value'}}

The other gives me:

{'some_map': {'false': 'cap', 'key': 'value'}}

... and neither gives what a human probably intended, huh?

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karmarepellent 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is why I've become a fan of StrictYAML [0]. Of course it is not supported by many projects, but at least you are given the option to dispense with all the unnecessary features and their associated pitfalls in the context of your own projects.

Most notably it only offers three base types (scalar string, array, object) and moves the work of parsing values to stronger types (such as int8 or boolean) to your codebase where you tend to wrap values parsed from YAML into other types anyway.

Less surprises and headaches, but very niche, unfortunately.

[0] https://hitchdev.com/strictyaml/

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sauercrowd 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That only matters if you're parsing the same yaml file with different parsers, which GitHub doesn't (and I doubt most people do - it's mostly used for config files)

	▲	sevensor 8 hours ago \| parent [-]
		“The meaning of YAML is implementation-defined” is a big reason I stay far away whenever I can.

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Perz1val 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The classic Norway bug

▲ Pxtl 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's less about YAML itself than the MS yaml-based API for interacting with build-servers. It's just so hard to check and test and debug.

	▲	everfrustrated 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		This so much this. Vscode has a very good syntax check github actions yaml so it's not yaml that's the problem. It's the workflow for developing pipelines that's the problem. If I had something I could run locally - even in a debug dry-run only form that would go a long way to debugging job dependencies, etc. Testing failure cases flow conditional logic in the expected manner etc.