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m12k 8 hours ago

I like to compare this to mandating surveillance cameras in every home. It would certainly make detecting and investigating many crimes easier. And the government might pinky swear to never watch without a warrant. They may even keep that promise. But that slippery slope is far from the only issue. Even more damning is that as long as this exists, whether used in official capacity or not, it will be the most sought after thing by hackers from crime organizations and hostile nations. Espionage, blackmail, you name - no person or organization would ever be safe, everybody's privacy and security is undermined.

raxxorraxor 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There is a reason why they added exemptions for themselves. Either they believe it is unsafe or perhaps there is a problem with child abuse on the EU legislator level which they want to cover up.

We are at a point where we shouldn't have to justify opposition to it. Just hold legislators of the EU accountable. If that isn't possible, hold the whole EU accountable and if that isn't possible, the EU has no legitimacy for such laws in the first place. Back to those responsible on a national level and repeat.

fauigerzigerk 6 hours ago | parent [-]

>We are at a point where we shouldn't have to justify opposition to it. Just hold legislators of the EU accountable.

I have no idea what this means.

gloosx 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think comparing it to something like camera surveillance inside your home is a good idea.

You kind of own your home – if someone places camera in your property, you can just remove it / obstruct vision / sound etc. If doing that will send you to jail then the level of dystopia around is so big it's irrelevant anyway – you're a slave with no rights and you will do that the shocking stick tells you to do.

Phones are different - you kind of don't own them by default because bootloader is locked so you are not free to execute the code you want on the device, as well as app store exists which it tells you what you can install and what you cannot install. The only leverage they have is to make Apple/Google remove certain apps from the EU stores.

1718627440 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's exactly the thing. Legally you own your phones. You are responsible for what they do.

We are now kind of a the crossroad. Either we expand the SaaS model to everything, or we enforce the until-now rules of ownership of the law.

Thorrez 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You own your home, but there are still laws regulating what you're allowed to do in your home.

Kim_Bruning 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That really depends on the phone. There's definitely phones where you can unlock the bootloader. It's not as common as it should be though, for sure.

7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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that_guy_iain 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How about we compare it with something more realistic? Like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON. Since 1971, the 5 eyes countries have been spying on people en masse and scanning communications.

You probably don't like the comparission because you want to be an alarmist who is acting like this is new. All the fears you have, have literally been proven to be...

collinmcnulty 7 hours ago | parent [-]

... well founded and spurred the widespread adoption of end to end encryption?

that_guy_iain 7 hours ago | parent [-]

No, it didn't. It took decades for that to happen.

collinmcnulty 7 hours ago | parent [-]

These programs really entered the public consciousness with the Snowden leaks in 2013. Signal was released in 2014.

that_guy_iain 6 hours ago | parent [-]

I only mentioned one program. A program that is literally comparable because it's literally what is being replaced. That program has been public knowledge in media such as TV shows and movies for decades. So when we're fear-mongering, we should only compare with that, and we should see what effects it had and the nonsense being used for fear-mongering.

Also, Signal was released not because of end-to-end encryption but because the founder sold WhatsApp and wasn't happy with the direction.

7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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