| ▲ | ViewTrick1002 13 hours ago |
| Based on history and looking long term I see three paths out: 1. South Africa / Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) where Palestine and Israel is united leading to an exodus of the former ethno-nationalist "managerial" class. 2. Two-state solution where an acceptance of each other is grown over generations. 3. Continuation of the current genocide of the Palestinian people until they are exterminated from their land. Leading to the isolation of Israel. For Israel and the Israeli people the only palatable option should be 2, but they seem hellbent on 3 as per how Israeli people post here on HN and the actions of their democratically elected government. |
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| ▲ | arp242 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| If you had said in 1988 that The Troubles in Northern Ireland would have a peace accord ten years later no one would have believed you. Everything seemed at a complete stalemate, and there is a history going back hundreds of years. Yet in 1998 the Good Friday accords were signed. And now, almost 30 years later, I think we can safely say it's been a huge success. There are a few things that made this possible. One important factor is the change of prime minister. Whereas Thatcher saw things only in terms of terrorists who need to be fought, John Major had more holistic view and recognised that in spite of the terrorism, there were some real structural problems that needed addressing. Even Ian Paisley admitted as much later in life, which would be roughly equivalent to Ben-Gvir admitting there is something to the Palestinian complaints. I guess my point is there can be happy endings to these types of conflicts. No one wins with the current situation, certainly not Israel. Punching everyone around you in the face as a defensive strategy works fantastically well right up until the point you take a nap, at which point everyone will stomp on your head like it's a right watermelon. |
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| ▲ | ponector 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >> but they seem hellbent on 3 as per how Israeli people post here on HN and the actions of their democratically elected government. Considering how many times Arabs started and lost wars against Israel, how many atrocities they did to Israel people it's not a surprise your #2 is not a popular option there. Need to mention nothing can justify current levels of destruction in Gaza. |
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| ▲ | Aeolun 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | They are quite literally doing the thing they condemn Germany for doing. It’s just industrial scale murder at this point. | | |
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| ▲ | wqaatwt 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What happened in Rhodesia was very different from the situation in South Africa. Whites are still very influential (especially economically) in SA. Rhodesia -> Zimbabwe is maybe closer to French Algiers. |
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| ▲ | purpleflame1257 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Neither is comparable to Israel since there's no home country for most Israelis to return to. | | |
| ▲ | Pxtl 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | If a person's great-grandparent is the colonizer can you really say they have a "home country" beyond the one they were born in? | | |
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| ▲ | cooloo 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | g-b-r 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > From POV of Israelies they gave Palestinians (2) and got a genocide in returns. The one Israeli prime minister who was about to give the Palestinians (2) was killed by an Israeli > Looking at Palestinians behavior they only want (1) that it's basically genocide for all Jewish Israelies. I guess it more complicated than you think Wanting their land back does not imply wanting to exterminate its present occupants. | | |
| ▲ | tguvot 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Quoting the one Israeli prime minister who was killed: "Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin used the phrase "less than a state" to describe his vision for a Palestinian entity during negotiations. After Rabin was killed, there were offers that palestinians refused | | |
| ▲ | g-b-r 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | There were some you consider particularly generous? After the Netanyahu-backed Hamas take over of Gaza, there was little hope for discussions, of course | | |
| ▲ | tguvot 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | actually, hamas took over gaza because of USA. Netanyahu had nothing to do with it. Small refresher on palestinian politics: - 2006 Elections were general elections in Palestinian Autonomy - Both Israel and PA were against elections because they were afraid that Hamas will win but USA forced it because "democracy shall prevail and will resolve everything" - Hamas won general elections in Palestinian Autonomy in 2006 and assembled government chaired by ismail haniyeh as prime minister - USA is shocked as "nobody saw it coming" - USA trained Fatah to coup against legitimate Palestinian government - Coup succeeded in west bank and failed in gaza in 2007 - During coup, Hamas killed, dragged behind bikes or threw from rooftops those that opposed it - After coup, Hamas tortured into obedience or killed all remaining opposition |
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| ▲ | cooloo 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | |
| ▲ | _DeadFred_ 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | No, but the words of the leaders do. Their actions on Oct. 7th do. | | |
| ▲ | _DeadFred_ 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | And of course the parent, which was not worthy of being flagged but was simply pushback, it now flagged and censored. When you flag anything inconvenient/uncomfortable into oblivion, you are not having a discussion. You are simply pushing a narrative. |
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| ▲ | churchill 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
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| ▲ | elcritch an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
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| ▲ | SilverElfin an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Yep. To put it simply - just because Jewish people were driven out of their land in the past doesn’t mean it isn’t their land still. They’re the indigenous people of the entire region, to the extent one survives (Canaanites > Israelites > Jews). And it’s obvious - there are so many old Jewish ruins (like the temple the Al Aqsa mosque is literally built on) that are at least a thousand years older than when Islam was even invented (very recently - 7th century). | | | |
| ▲ | CapricornNoble 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why are all of Israel's prime ministers either first or second generation immigrants of European persuasion? If so much of the population is either local to Palestine or at least the Middle East in general, shouldn't that be reflected in the highest echelons of power? Yair Lapid might be considered third generation as both him and his mother were born in Tel Aviv, while his father is Yugoslavian. |
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