| ▲ | cjohnson318 14 hours ago |
| So much for being a safe and lucrative place for all the best minds of the world. |
|
| ▲ | numa7numa7 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I could be wrong but I thought O-1 was the genius visa and H1B was the skilled labor visa. |
| |
|
| ▲ | djohnston 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If you think H1B brings “the best minds of the world” I have a bridge to sell you. |
|
| ▲ | jzzjznnzk 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That argument only works if society distributes wealth more equitably. Current setup simply brings in foreign labor so that capitalists can reduce wages and they pocket the profit, while Americans pocket the costs. Not to mention migrating for purely economic reasons is obviously not going to make the locals like you very much. |
|
| ▲ | oldpersonintx2 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [dead] |
|
| ▲ | swarnie 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Doesn't the 100k fee ensure only the best (most worthwhile in a capitalist system) come and you don't end up with mass used to undercut local wages? |
| |
| ▲ | rs186 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Nah, the employer will happily get rid of the US headcount and rehire the same guy in their home country or UK/Canada etc while paying a third of the salary. Zero employer is going to pay $100k. | | |
| ▲ | sarchertech 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | At big tech companies they are already paying $200k or more than they'd pay the same worker in their home country for existing H-1Bs. An extra $100k might tip the scale for some but not for all. The most likely outcome is that body shops can no longer afford H-1Bs, but big tech still can. | | |
| ▲ | WarOnPrivacy 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > The most likely outcome is that body shops can no longer afford H-1Bs, but big tech still can. For publicly-held large tech, the equation isn't about affordability but about maximizing shareholder dividends. Moving jobs overseas has long been the preferred means to that end. | | |
| ▲ | sarchertech 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sure, but they have always been able to do that. It's always been cheaper to hire employees overseas than to employe H-1Bs here. Making H-1Bs more expensive increases the delta and probably makes it more attractive for some jobs. But clearly there is some value in employing people in the US or they would have already moved the jobs. | | |
| ▲ | WarOnPrivacy 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Sure, but they have always been able to do that. I think the newness (some period before 2020) of tech in general tended to intimidate those legacy shareholder groups who got in early. And I suspect that early shareholding was often dominated by employees, etc (not sure tho). I think those interests plus the proximity to adjacent industries created strong interest in US Gov's (now-former) incentives to create to bring many of the best minds here. We've dialed back all the above. We've put truly hostile interests in power that are weaponizing Gov assets & millions of supporters - against every manifestation of immigration. Our actual outcomes are flavored with rising Gov violence and populist animosity toward (mostly non-white) immigrants and those associated with them. Considering what and where we are, I absolutely see this high-paying, historical class of jobs being shipped overseas. | | |
| ▲ | sarchertech 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Ok but if that’s the case it’s happening with or without an extra 100k in H-1B costs. The best you can say is that the extra fee speeds it up. |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | thisisit 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Big tech can get waiver from DHS. Cheap labor exists because there is a demand for it. Body shops don't pay those wages - companies who hire those bodies from body shops do. So, body shops are going to raise prices accordingly. "You need someone to manage your Oracle/SAP ERP systems and do a horrible job of it? And that person needs to be here locally? That will be an extra $60k from our last contract because we cannot bring in cheap bodies now." (assuming they eat $40k of the costs) In the meantime rural medical centers will be devasted because many teams are made of H1B doctors. H1B certainly requires more government oversight. But doing their jobs or applying critical thinking skills isn't a criteria for this administration. | |
| ▲ | rs186 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Extra $100k might "tip the scale"? If you are the employer, are you going to shell out 50% more for no good reason? Amazon has over 10k H1B workers. Think about how much money it means. | | |
| ▲ | sarchertech 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >Amazon has over 10k H1B workers. Think about how much money it means. Something like 0.3% of their yearly profit. They're already paying probably somewhere near $200k a year more. Clearly it's not for no good reason. Clearly there is some advantage to employing them here if they are already willing to pay $200k more than they have to. An extra $100k doesn't erase whatever that value is. The question is, is employing them here worth $200k to Amazon, but not $300k? Likely the case for some employees, but almost certainly not all. | | |
| ▲ | rs186 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | Care to show your math? | | |
| ▲ | sarchertech 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | From your post >while paying a third of the salary If they're paying $300k, they are paying $200k extra to employ that person in the US. | | |
|
| |
| ▲ | 0x1ceb00da 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's exactly like the tariff war with china. India refused to put sanctions on russia (who helped india in its wars with pakistan, who received help from USA), so now trump is saying we don't want your people in here. The outcome is probably going to be similar to the tariff war as well. They'll start out with totally absurd bullshit and then come down to something more reasonable. Maybe $10-20k per worker per year. From the point of view of the state, humans are just another resource, like crude oil. If you don't have something, you import it. And what's happening right now is haggling at the global scale. It's just a bunch of gorillas thumping their chests. Nobody cares about the citizens. | | |
| ▲ | 0x1ceb00da 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yep, it's definitely designed to target indians. Navratri starts on monday lol. |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | alooPotato 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Couldn't companies have already done that if it was so easy to save 2/3 of the salary? | | |
| ▲ | prasadjoglekar 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They already do. IBM has ~100K employees in India out of some 250-300K. That same labor budget would pay for 1/3rd that in the US. Edited to add: The local Indian economy doesn't sustain those many IBM employees. They are servicing the rest of the world. | | |
| ▲ | alooPotato 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Exactly, so this $100K fee shouldn't change anything that isn't already happening. If they could ship the jobs elsewhere that you're worried about, they would have already? |
| |
| ▲ | rs186 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | They are, and increasingly so for the past 2-3 years. I guess you have not been paying attention. I know as a matter of fact that my company and other companies almost exclusively create new headcounts in India/UK/Germany. US headcounts are only for replacement or as exceptions. Even some replacement headcounts are moved overseas. | | |
| ▲ | alooPotato 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Exactly, so this $100K fee shouldn't change anything that isn't already happening. If they could ship the jobs elsewhere that you're worried about, they would have already? | | |
| ▲ | rs186 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | What do you think recent layoffs are for? | | |
| ▲ | alooPotato 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't understand what point you're trying to make. I think we're saying the same thing - $100K fee won't change anything. |
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | JKCalhoun 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah, I suspect more jobs are going overseas now. | | |
| ▲ | XenophileJKO 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Certainly some will, but if we have learned anything from the 1990-Now, it is that remote R&D doesn't always save money or even work effectively at all. | | |
| ▲ | WarOnPrivacy 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The pressure to juice short-term dividends is as ceaseless as gravity or oxidation. It has to be overcome before lessons-learned can transform into wisdom-based outcomes. | |
| ▲ | rs186 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The world in 1990 is no longer the world now. As someone who works with colleagues from India (like, physically in India), I don't see any reason the company keeps me over some other random guy in India, to be honest. | | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | A big change from then to now for remote collaboration is better connectivity in general, and technology such as Zoom and Teams. But how do you handle the time zone difference? That has always been the issue I've seen with any kind of real-time collaboration with contracrors or employees in India. If it's work that doesn't involve that, then what is the big difference now? Github? Slack? | | |
| ▲ | rs186 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | If companies like airbnb allow you to work from anywhere in the world, it means timezone is not a problem. It definitely needs some investment though. > what is the big difference now? What is the difference between pre-2020 full-time in-office, vs 3 day or even fully remote? Nothing, in my opinion (CEOs don't agree though). If people are productive with 3 days in office, that could have been the norm before 2020. All you need is someone actually making it happen. |
|
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | visa-vasanth 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not really. The H1b and O visas were never used for "genius" talent, they are typically used by the WITCH companies to pay people bottom-rate wages (40k-60k for HCOL city) so companies can underpay market wages. If you have to pay 100k, you might as well hire an American worker. The "shortages" will mysteriously disappear. | | |
| ▲ | brainwad 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | When I got my first LCA 14 years ago, the min salary my employer had to pay was 77k (and I actually got 90k). How on earth do Indian outsourcing companies get 401ks for employees earning only 40-60k? | |
| ▲ | IncreasePosts 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Exactly. It might not make economic sense to pay the fee for $40k wages. But maybe it does for $500 k/yr Google/meta employee |
| |
| ▲ | mindslight 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No, because after the spectacle of human cruelty from the initial implementation has faded, large companies will cozy up to the regime ($$bribes$$) and the per-employee government fees will be waved. Furthermore as we've seen with "return to office", companies are more concerned with having control than with the bottom line. This new dynamic gives them one more thing to hold over H1Bs heads. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of H1Bs increases. | |
| ▲ | nojito 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The median salary of someone on H1B is higher than someone not on H1B. If H1B is gone we will see a decrease in wages not an increase. | | |
| ▲ | sarchertech 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >The median salary of someone on H1B is higher than someone not on H1B. Not within the same job in the same location they aren't. If you're on an H-1B and you get fired or laid off, you have 60 days to find a new job or be deported. That creates an underclass of workers who are willing to put up with much worse working conditions and work longer hours. That drives down working conditions and wages for everyone. | | |
| ▲ | nojito 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | >Not within the same job in the same location they aren't. The actual data doesn't support this belief. 100% offer market wages and 78% offer higher than market wages. | | |
| ▲ | sarchertech 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | 1. I'd need to see the exact data you're citing. 2. It's a common tactic to employ people on H-1Bs in a lower paying job title while having the perform the work of a higher paying title. 3. You'd need to adjust for average number of hours worked. | | |
| ▲ | nojito 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | None of what you said is true. https://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/The-Impact-of-H-... | | |
| ▲ | sarchertech 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | “In fiscal 2018, 70% of approved H-1B petitions were for workers 30 years of age and older—a significant indicator that those workers already possess at least six to eight years of experience. Further, H-1B workers’ educational levels, which are an important determinant of skills, indicate they should be filling higher-skilled positions. In fact, 63% of all H-1B workers held an advanced degree (master’s, professional, or doctorate degree),32 meaning one could reasonably conclude that a majority of H-1B workers have the educational attainment and/or years of experience to fill positions at wage levels 3 and 4. These data suggest it is likely that H-1B employers are underpaying workers relative to their skill levels.” https://www.epi.org/publication/h-1b-visas-and-prevailing-wa... | |
| ▲ | explorer01 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Anecdotally, I have seen the h1b under leveling happen multiple times. But not sure it’s common enough to skew the data but it does stand out when it happens because you have a great engineer with 10 years experience and you find out they are an SDE1. For every one of those there are probably 10 that are correctly leveled or over leveled. |
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | Our_Benefactors 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Bold claim cotton | | |
|
|
|
| ▲ | rayiner 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| 70% of H1Bs are from India: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/9/20/h-1b-visa-fee-timel.... That’s five times more than China. Are we really to believe that the supermajority of “the best minds of the world” come from a single country? Or is the marketing of H1B quite different from the product Americans are actually receiving. |
| |
| ▲ | jonathanstrange 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | India has the largest population on Earth and Indians have more incentives to leave their country than Chinese. | | |
| ▲ | rayiner 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | India has 130 million college graduates, and 70% of H1bs. Mexico, Brazil, and Colombia together have over 50 million graduates, but only around 2% of H1bs combined. | | |
| ▲ | jonathanstrange 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | So the US is more popular among Indians than among Mexicans, Brazilians, and Colombians. What is the point? And why these countries when I've already said the same about Indians vs. Chinese? | | |
| ▲ | rayiner 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | The point is that it strongly suggests the system is being abused by India. Even excluding developed countries where people might lack incentive to move, India doesn’t come close to having 70% of “the talent.” Latin America alone probably has as many college graduates as India, accounting for higher college attendance rates. But Latin America accounts for a small share of H1bs while India accounts for 70%. | | |
| ▲ | 13415 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | That argument is not sound. English is an official language of India, of course Indians are much more likely to seek work in the UK and the US than people from Latin America. You have failed to present any evidence concerning the skill levels of Indian H1B holders, and, moreover, since India has the largest population of all countries, those 130M college graduates must have gone through some very tough selection. | | |
| ▲ | rayiner 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | > English is an official language of India, of course Indians are much more likely to seek work in the UK and the US than people from Latin America. The U.S. is also much closer to Latin America, and has a large Latino community already. The disparity in H1bs (70% versus 2% for Mexico/Brazil/Colombia) is just too huge to explain by language preferences. > since India has the largest population of all countries, those 130M college graduates must have gone through some very tough selection. Not at all. Outside the top schools standards plummet. Half of those graduates are not qualified to work in their fields: https://www.tbsnews.net/bloomberg-special/worthless-degrees-... | | |
| ▲ | 13415 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is the most desperate and feeble attempt to save an argument I've seen in a long time. How about you try find some actual evidence to support your claims instead these wild constructions. > The disparity in H1bs (70% versus 2% for Mexico/Brazil/Colombia) is just too huge to explain by language preferences. You base your position on these kind "hunches"? "Just too huge to explain". No, it isn't just too huge to explain. It's really that simple. India is the largest country of the world in terms of population, English is an official language of India, hence there is a substantial amount of people with high qualifications who use those qualifications to seek employment in major English speaking countries like the US and the UK with visas like the H1B. There are also many Chinese people in those countries but the language barrier makes it much harder for them. People from Latin America have a hard time getting hired for highly qualified jobs in the US for various reasons, one of them being the language barrier. By the way, if there was some conspiracy to hire Indians with low qualifications, then you'd still have not done anything to explain why these people should be Indians as opposed to Latin Americans. The argument makes no sense. Can't you see that? I'm genuinely puzzled. | | |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|