| ▲ | lotsofpulp 8 hours ago |
| Unless you mean the electoral college overriding popular vote nonsense, and disproportionate Senate power, which was there since the beginning, I don't know what you mean. The voters apparently wanted more of this per the Nov 2024 elections, when we still had a credible election process. |
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| ▲ | hvb2 an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| I don't believe the average American cares about the concerns raised in this thread. Most of them don't have the slightest understanding of how their immigration system works. I do think that no one would accept this kind of mismanagement if it were to affect them. Let's say by executive order they make tax day Feb 1st on January 30th. And everyone who's late will pay a hefty fine.
See how that would go.... This is no way to make policy, no matter the form of government |
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| ▲ | 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | jauntywundrkind 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem" has been sedition that has been let to spread and rot at our foundations for decades now, growing only stronger. There is absolute bedlam and insanity pushed to American voters, completely made up fictionalized reality, blasted out by Fox News and worse. People live in the most absurd hyperreal simulation, built entirely around hating government, disbelief of the state, and disdain for civil society civil rights and decency. The extremeification of American politics by the right has totally crippled the state. Business can sometimes come in an extract wins for itself, but everyone else loses. The political gamesmanship begat by Hastert rule, where wins must never be bipartisan wins, has decayed the government, betrayed the nation. I'm so so tired of such loud utterly decoupled unhinged sedition, against the state against reality. My favorite recurring threads these days is a simple one: society that wants to keep functioning has to disincentivize baldfaced lying, especially by authorities |
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| ▲ | politician 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Aren't the left the ones making the claim posed by your opening sentence these days? Could you clarify whether it's seditious only when one side is making that claim or is the seditiousness of the claim group-independent? | | |
| ▲ | djohnston 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Of course he only thinks it’s seditious when it’s the wrong team. Of course democracy is broken because his team lost the election. |
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| ▲ | jonathanstrange 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There was evidence of voting machine fraud, though. |
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| ▲ | djohnston 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Interesting… would you say the election was, erm, rigged? | |
| ▲ | lotsofpulp 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In almost every single jurisdiction? That would be an impressive fraud to pull off. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/06/us/politics/p... >More than 89 percent of counties in the United States shifted in favor of former President Donald J. Trump in the 2024 presidential election, according to a New York Times analysis of election results. | | |
| ▲ | Arainach 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >89 percent of counties Land doesn't vote. People vote. What percentage of the population live in those 89% of counties? | | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | No, you don't need to do that in 'almost every single jurisdiction'. That's a strawman. | | |
| ▲ | lotsofpulp 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | It would be quite the coincidence then for all the voting precincts to swing towards the same candidate as the fraud. I find it likelier that people’s preferences simply changed. | | |
| ▲ | jonathanstrange 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Possible but a simple software update can also do the trick. That's just a fact and the reason why no one should trust a democracy based on voting machines. Experts have been warning against voting machines for decades. | | |
| ▲ | JuniperMesos 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah, and in at least the past two elections the side that won has tried to promulgate memes that the voting machines are reliable and it's wrong to suggest that there's fraud going on; while the side that lost has tried to promulgate memes that there was something fishy about the election. I support wholesale reform to the American electoral process that would assuage the concerns of all parties and make it much more verifiable that every legal vote was counted and no illegal votes happened. | |
| ▲ | lotsofpulp 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Do all the jurisdictions use the same software? It would surprise me if we are at that level of centralization, plus no discrepancies appeared between audited paper ballots and the software counts? | | |
| ▲ | jonathanstrange 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why "all jurisdictions"? That's a strawman. You only need to target a few districts in swing states to secure a victory. | | |
| ▲ | lotsofpulp 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | …that is the point I am making. Which scenario is likelier: All 7 swing states went to Republicans due to fraud, and it just so happens that everywhere else also went more Republican. Or all 7 swing states went to Republicans because voters voted more Republican throughout the country? Note that not voting is the same as voting for the winning party. | |
| ▲ | idontpost 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | onetokeoverthe 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [dead] | |
| ▲ | cyanydeez 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | even without fraud, republicans have gerry mandered enough states that they're silencing the public majority. | | |
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| ▲ | thisisit 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I see this point being made a lot. Lets be clear - the election was won on inflation. While a lot was said about 47th's previous record it was often brushed aside with - Sure, this was said last time too and he didn't do any of this. Its the same thing all over again, people crying wolf etc. There was even consternation about Project 2025 and many well minded people didn't believe it would be enacted. Now the approval rating on handling of economy continues to fall day by day. Immigration was the strongest suit at +10 is now under water at -4.5. That means while voters might have wanted something to be done about immigration but they might not wanted more of this. This will become clear only during the midterm elections. With all the efforts being made to gerrymander and gain as many seats as possible, it is good guess to say GOP also realize that people didn't want more of this - and the only way now is to hold on to power by any means necessary. So, that it allows others to say - This government was elected in Nov 2024 and if they are doing this terrible thing then surely people have voted for this. |
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| ▲ | 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | lotsofpulp 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don’t give voters that much benefit of the doubt. They saw a man (and party) make baseless accusations to overturn an election, openly support a terrorist attack on the government, and campaign on freeing those terrorists and punishing those who went after the terrorists. And they decided this man was better than a woman, especially a black woman. Because he was a man. I’ve been told this even by a few older women, that a woman leader didn’t sit right with them. And they were non white immigrants! This is all ignoring the myriad sex crimes, fraud, and general lack of integrity of the man. |
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