I don't know much about the other cities you mentioned, but there's no way you could get top developers from Warsaw for $50-60k in 2025. You may be hard pressed to find them even if you 2x that. As a point of reference, a nice family apartment costs around $1M here now. Times they are a-changin.

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alephnerd 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> you could get top developers from Warsaw for $50-60k in 2025

We'd be paying that for Early career base (think L3). Mid-career you'd see people breaking the $80-110k base range.

I don't like giving "TC" simply because RSUs are very dependent on a number of outside variables.

And my example was for why a JPMC opens an offshore office abroad, or why a company hires an EPAM type.

For product companies who actually care about work quality, you won't too see much difference between salary abroad and a US salary from 10 years ago. I'd recommend using a fork of the old GitLab comp calculator - it's fairly accurate.

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dzonga 3 days ago | parent [-]

I don't know why people like arguing with facts.

you're pointing out facts - yet people deny. most software jobs listings are either in eastern europe or india these days. that's the "A.I" eating software jobs.

yeah some companies might list U.S jobs - but they're only seriously hiring for Staff roles. the rest offshored.

	▲	alephnerd 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		It's been a bad market. A lot of people on HN are ICs who are rightfully stressed and anxious. The nativism and rejection makes sense with that regards - it's an almost religious hope that stuff will get better. I just believe in being brutally honest - especially on HN, where I can vent or shine a light on decisions.

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N2yhWNXQN3k9 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Then what would the salary be? If I am hard-pressed to hire at 120k?

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prasoonds 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Offering a perspective from Berlin - a decent-to-good senior engineer goes for $120k-$130k so I'm guessing for Warsaw, you could get someone similar for $90k-100k

	▲	LunaSea 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		$130k is something I very rarely see on job postings anywhere in Europe besides maybe London.

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snicky 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Of course it all depends on who are we actually talking about. I think talented seniors with 5-10yoe and proper communication skills expect North of $150k.

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N2yhWNXQN3k9 3 days ago | parent [-]

Interesting, there are plenty of localities in the US that hire 5-10yoe developers at south of $100k.

You can see this in BLS data.

Is there a good resource for data on wages in Poland? I mean, I am going to look, but I thought I'd ask.

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snicky 3 days ago | parent [-]

> Interesting, there are plenty of localities in the US that hire 5-10yoe developers at south of $100k.

I don't doubt there may be people who would be fine with that, but I guess no one who values their own skills would go for it if there are plenty of East/West Coast companies hiring remotely.

> Is there a good resource for data on wages in Poland? I mean, I am going to look, but I thought I'd ask.

I think you can start from looking at the local job offers, e.g. https://justjoin.it. Just remember there are a couple of nuances:

- most developers in Poland don't want to be FTEs, because the tax burden on that type of employment is at least 2 times higher than on B2B contracts; effectively, we ended up having a market where everyone is hired B2B, but with all the usual FT benefits (paid vacations and sick days, equipment, private insurance, gym memberships, free food and whatnot) - it's sort of a gray area, but the related law is not really enforced; thus as a foreign company you compete with the local B2B rates + benefits

- people are aware that US is a different market generating more revenue

- the work-life balance may be quite different, so they expect to be paid accordingly

- Warsaw is generally more expensive than other cities in Poland, so you don't need to limit yourself to one city in your search, the same way as you wouldn't hire remote developers from the Bay Area only

- there's a reason these offers are hanging in there :)

Edit: formatting.

	▲	alephnerd 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		> Warsaw is generally more expensive than other cities in Poland, so you don't need to limit yourself to one city in your search Yep! Krakow, Lodz, and the other various cities have become cost effective and built hiring pipelines as well. You see this all over the CEE and India as well, such as Czechia (Brno, Ostrava), Romania (Cluj thanks to the Transylvanian government, Timisoara) and India (BLR/Pune/Hyd/Gurgaon to Tier 2/3 cities)

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3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

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