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djohnston 16 hours ago

I suspect they were looking for an excuse to axe and found one. It was all milquetoast, and that entire format of television is dead and the networks know they need to pivot somewhere.

epistasis 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The FCC chair threatening your broadcast license is a pretty good "excuse". There wasn't a public outcry, it was a government outcry along with threats along multiple lines of leverage.

OutOfHere 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> The FCC chair threatening your broadcast license

That's a clear violation of the First Amendment.

epistasis 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yep! And he wrote the whole chapter in Project 2025 outlining that he would do exactly this, in advance of taking the job. Who is going to stop him? The Supreme Court? Not likely.

16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
SoftTalker 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not necessarily. Broadcasters have a license from the government to use the airwaves and they are obligated to act in the public interest. So some restrictions apply to them.

digitaltrees 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

1. You can’t take someone’s property with out due process of law. There has been no showing that they violated that obligation. 2. The constitution has supremacy, so you can’t violate someone’s first amendment rights in service of FCC regulations.

In fact there is a more than credible argument that criticizing and mocking politicians is an essential public service.

JumpCrisscross 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Broadcasters have a license from the government to use the airwaves and they are obligated to act in the public interest. So some restrictions apply to them.

Necessarily.

Carr threatened to revoke licenses based on the political speech of ABC. That's clearly unconstitutional. Trump followed up by saying licenses should be revoked for criticism of himself. Unitary President cuts both ways.

If this is okay, the next Democrat who's President needs to shut down Fox News and their ilk or be impeached. (From the perspective of fomenting rebellion and generally posing a threat to our republic, Jimmy Kimmel isn't even on the list.)

yannyu 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Fox News is technically cable, as the other poster under you has noted, which is a favored defense for this sort of discussion.

What they ignore is that local Fox affiliate stations who are also licensed by the FCC have a history of aligning with Fox News misinformation campaigns relating to covid, election integrity, Russia and Ukraine, Palestine, etc.

So no, the FCC licensed world is not left leaning, and these local affiliate stations should absolutely be held to the same standard.

billfor 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Fox news doesn't have a broadcast license. ABC does. As with redistricting, democrats are limited because things are already biased in their favor. Broadcast networks are all center-left at this point, if not then show me one major broadcaster that is center right. Democrats basically have nobody to go after.

To your point, The Democrats, when back in power, could extend licensing issues into cableTV, etc... and attempt to fire Fox or Newsmax commentators... I would argue the Biden administration already attempted to do a form of this, as we saw with Facebook, Twitter, et al, the last administration certainly tried influencing the online arena.

I just think both sides do it, although on this forum it seems to trigger mostly the left side.

kenjackson 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Fox News doesn’t have a broadcast license but Fox Broadcasting does. If people are doing this sort of extortion, it wouldn’t be a leap to see the whole Fox corporation in the crosshairs. This is all just a terrible precedent for what the future holds.

SauciestGNU 13 hours ago | parent [-]

Except non-NewsCorp Fox assets were bought by none other than Disney! It's a gordian knot of monopolistic corruption!

JumpCrisscross 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> would argue the Biden administration already attempted to do a form of this, as we saw with Facebook, Twitter, et al, the last administration certainly tried influencing the online arena

Not comparable. That said, I agree—if this precedent stands, there should be personal liability for Newsmax commenters under a future administration. (And, of course, they should be barred from federal property.)

One would also go after the online streaming companies to delist their content. Google and Meta are constantly under antitrust controlled. TikTok is government owned. And you could start knocking on X with its money-transfer ambitions and Elon’s robotaxi approvals (to say nothing of federal contracts).

akerl_ 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Which restriction applied here?

brendoelfrendo 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's not what the public interest requirement means. In fact, the FCC's own website says "the public interest is best served by permitting free expression of views."[0] And anyway, there are specific carve outs for late-night programming.

[0] https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/fcc-and-speech

rdtsc 13 hours ago | parent [-]

However the same website they describes the exceptions and limits:

https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/public-and-broadcasting#JOUR...

> Hoaxes. The broadcast by a station of false information concerning a crime or catastrophe violates the FCC's rules if:

> The station licensee knew that the information was false

There quite a few other rules, obscenity and violence and such. But they probably got Jimmy on the crime that was just committed + spreading false information.

SauciestGNU 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Nothing he said was false though, the Republicans were trying to paint the shooter as anyone other than one of their own. It might be that he's actually a leftist, but Kimmel described Republican behavior and did not actually make any assertions of fact regarding the alleged shooter.

rdtsc 12 hours ago | parent [-]

There was some initial social media reaction portraying this guy as some hard right fascist or whatever, as well. So it wasn't something just Kimmel had come up with. It could be that by the time the show started more evidence came out and he was looking more one way, and Jimmy just had stale info or his staffers were lazy and didn't update him.

> Nothing he said was false though, the Republicans were trying to paint the shooter as anyone other than one of their own.

Yeah, and the show owners could have fought it. There might be a warning, a lawsuit, maybe a period to comply and make changes etc. But they folded immediately. They probably figured technically they could have explained it, but the PR aspect of it was a losing battle. Here is another part of the country flying flags half staff, and what is ABC's doing? Oh right, explaining away Kimmel's news and jokes and defending him. A lot of these corporations and their leaders can smell the way the wind blows and they really hate it when the wind blows away their profits, so they just react accordingly.

brendoelfrendo 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What hoax or false info? Also, Kimmel isn't a journalist or news reporter and his show isn't broadcast journalism. As far as obscenity rules, the rules don't necessarily apply between 10pm and 6am; "obscene" material is not allowed at any time of day, but "indecent" material is allowed on late-night television. These are terms that have specific meaning in the context of the law, and what Kimmel said would in no way rise to the level of obscene.

rdtsc 12 hours ago | parent [-]

So why did the network fold so quickly? It's a simple enough explanation "we not journalists, these are all made up jokes and parodies, we send our condolences to the family ... etc".

They folded because they knew how the statement was perceived. Here is half the country flying flags half staff and ABC owners are defending Kimmel. They are worried about views and profits and when that is threatened everything goes out of the window.

Paradoxically, I think Kimmel is all of the sudden on top again, just due to the controversy. The younger crowd who don't sit and watch ABC, might have just learned about this Kimmel guy the first time. May be another network will pick him up, it could be a win for him overall.

willmarch 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No, they folded because the United States Federal government threatened them. That fact is the only thing that should matter in this discussion. This is a clear violation of the 1st Amendment by the government against protected speech (no matter how many people find that protected speech distasteful).

rdtsc 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> No, they folded because the United States Federal government threatened them.

Yes because they control the FCC and FCC has rules in regards to the content of broadcasts. Kimmel is free to say anything he wants on his own website or platform and such, but as soon as it's on the "air" rules apply.

> This is a clear violation of the 1st Amendment by the government against protected speech (no matter how many people find that protected speech distasteful).

If it's that clear the would have fought it. It wasn't clear at all. Moreover it was just a bad PR look instead of saying something like "condolences for the family blah blah" they would be defending Kimmel's phrasing. That's why they dropped like him a hot potato.

kingkawn 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Perception has nothing to do with it, the mafia-threats did

rdtsc 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Perception has nothing to do with it, the mafia-threats did

Mafia threats work precisely because of perception. The perception of the power is the power. If everyone caves, and can't fight back, the mafia gets stronger.

15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
rdtsc 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

As it turns out the government can dictate how the broadcast frequencies are used, including dictate things about the content. The company could have switched to online only and continued the show. Heck, they should have called uncle sam's bluff maybe and see what happened.

They are not sending Jimmy to gulag or arresting him. Jimmy can still continue his show just maybe on his own youtube channel or his own online platform or something.

pseudalopex 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

"[g]overnment officials cannot attempt to coerce private parties in order to punish or suppress views that the government disfavors"[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association_of_...

rdtsc 14 hours ago | parent [-]

The executive branch controls the FCC which controls broadcasting licenses. Specifically broadcast journalism over the air is controlled

https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/public-and-broadcasting#JOUR...

Note:

> Nevertheless, there are two issues related to broadcast journalism that are subject to Commission regulation: hoaxes and news distortion. Hoaxes. The broadcast by a station of false information concerning a crime or catastrophe violates the FCC's rules if [...] The station licensee knew that the information was false.

All Jimmy had to do, it seems, was to say "this is all a made up joke" and move on, instead of presenting whatever he was saying as information or news.

> If a station airs a disclaimer before the broadcast that clearly characterizes the program as fiction and the disclaimer is presented in a reasonable manner under the circumstances, the program is presumed not to pose foreseeable public harm.

> However, as public trustees, broadcast licensees may not intentionally distort the news. The FCC has stated that “rigging or slanting the news is a most heinous act against the public interest.” The Commission will investigate a station for news distortion if it receives documented evidence of rigging or slanting, such as testimony or other documentation, from individuals with direct personal knowledge that a licensee or its management engaged in the intentional falsification of the news. Of particular concern would be evidence of the direction to employees from station management to falsify the news. However, absent such a compelling showing, the Commission will not intervene.

Again, Jimmy didn't get sent to the gulag and didn't go to jail. He can still run a show on his own platform or a youtube channel or maybe Netflix will sign him up. Heck, after this, I'd say he would easily triple his view numbers if anything.

willmarch 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The US government threatened a private company in an attempt to suppress speech that is protected under the 1st Amendment from government interference. This is a violation of the US Constitution. Full stop.

rdtsc 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> This is a violation of the US Constitution. Full stop

I needs a comma, or semicolon at least.

> The US government threatened a private company

Threatened with what, imprisonment, death? They threatened to pull the FCC license. It turns out broadcast content is controlled by the government. It always has been. Kimmel can and should continue saying what he was saying on his own website or platform or whatever.

> This is a violation of the US Constitution.

Ok, let's say it's a clear cut violation, with a full stop, an open and shut case. ABC can file a lawsuit, it's an easy win isn't then? And, plus they get to show how they fought and won over fascism. Why did they fold so quickly then?

kingkawn 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That’s a lotta words to justify complete bs

rdtsc 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> That’s a lotta words to justify complete bs

If that's the rebuttal, I'll take it as an acknowledgement that's it's right.

rfrey 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Today: he's not been sent to jail.

Tomorrow: it's not like they executed him.

rdtsc 13 hours ago | parent [-]

> Today: he's not been sent to jail.

> Tomorrow: it's not like they executed him.

Yes threatening to pull the FCC license and canceling Kimmel's show is exactly like torturing, killing and imprisoning people in labor and death camps. We should all fell very sorry for poor Jimmy, we don't know how he'll even manage.

willmarch 7 hours ago | parent [-]

In the sense of both of them being violations of the US Constitution, yes they are exactly the same.

rdtsc 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Absolutely. That perfectly illustrates my point. Thank you.

beej71 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If that's the case, the next Democrat is definitely ending right wing talk radio.

jaybrendansmith 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And what makes you think we will continue to have elections? This Project 25 is clearly a plan to destroy our Republic and subject us all to minority Christo-Fascist rule. We need to wake up and recognize what we are up against, or it is guaranteed to happen here.

rdtsc 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah that is definitely on the table, we'll see what happens.

Here, interestingly, just a threat was enough. I wonder why the owners didn't want to fight it at all? The speed with with they folded was very telling. As others mentioned, I suspect if they decided they just didn't want to keep paying Kimmel for the show. He was making somewhere around $15m/year or something they saw a chance to say "goodbye".

28304283409234 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What on earth makes you think there will be a next Democrat?

ummonk 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s actually a terrible excuse as the backlash is demonstrating. Even if they were about to axe the show all along it would have been a good idea to delay that to avoid the appearance they were caving to government pressure.

rdtsc 13 hours ago | parent [-]

> It’s actually a terrible excuse as the backlash is demonstrating. Even if they were about to axe the show all along it would have been a good idea to delay that to avoid the appearance they were caving to government pressure.

But that meant having to defend making up stuff about a murder and comment on the crime even as the others are flying flags half staff. Quickly showing they caved to government's pressure was exactly the look they wanted.

And let's say fought back, who would that be for? They younger viewers are not sitting at home watching TV and cheering Jimmy on. Many don't even know who Jimmy is; they just learned this week because it's on social media. So putting some kind of a defense and turning it into a battle rather than caving would have been the worse of the two choices they had.

danaris 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> But that meant having to defend making up stuff about a murder

What was Kimmel making up?

The fact that the shooter was conservative, from a conservative family?

The fact that Kirk openly advocated for gun violence?

Please do tell us exactly what was being "made up," here.

rdtsc 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> The fact that the shooter was conservative, from a conservative family?

He implied it was trump maga head or some kind. Not just implied, he made it sound like it's a sure thing. Moreover, it applied to a crime that was just committed. When FCC threatened them ABC knew they couldn't appeal or fight. It wasn't worth it, it would have been a PR disaster.

This guy is nothing like a maga whatever, he as trans girlfriend, leftist views, parents said that much (they are the ones who turned him even), wrote "Bella ciao" on bullets and "catch, fascist" and most importantly heshoots a trump-loving personality like Kirk. How did Kimmel arrive at him being some trump fan, I don't see it. That's the intentionally spreading misinformation related to a crime, good enough for FCC to threaten him and good enough for ABC to realize they'll be in a losing game defending him.

bluGill 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I find it hard to take that threat seriously. There would be blood on the street - real blood - americans won't stand for it. (Some will of course but enough would not that the fcc would blink)

Cheer2171 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

FCC chair literally said "We can do this the easy way or the hard way" the easy way being ABC cancelling it, the hard way being pulling the license.

And if you wait for the license to be pulled as your red line, you misunderstand how this works. This is an actual threat, the kind of thing that mobsters get RICO charges for. The threat has done its work and served the purposes of the administration. The crime has already taken place. The mobster says "but he agreed to pay the protection money and nobody ever actually broke his kneecaps"

"These companies can find ways to change conduct and take actions on Kimmel,” said Carr, a Trump appointee, “or there’s going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/article/jimmy-kimmel-liv...

bluGill 15 hours ago | parent [-]

Anyone can say anything. Follow through and abc can just ignore the order and tell everyone watching what is happening. They have the power of the pen and will get people running to their congressman.

they blinked so we will never know.

ethbr1 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Anyone can say anything.

Not as the federal government, because it explicitly lacks the freedom of speech citizens are ensured by the Constitution.

And absent a first amendment claim, the best defense they can come up with would be 'We were joking.'

Which, given the well-cited history of coercion by this administration (both in verbalized plans and actions), would be a hard defense to make.

epistasis 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Saying that they blinked seems to be an admission that it was a threat with impact, no?

What is there to blink about if it was not a threat?

If I walk up to someone with a gun and wave the gun around and demand they give me their money or I'll shoot them, it does not matter if I was "serious" or not about the threat. If I tell a jury that I wouldn't have actually ever have shot the person, and that they just decided to give me their money because they didn't really need it so much, I'm not sure any jury would agree, unless I was a hell of a salesman.

Cheer2171 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You seem to be saying that what happened is fine because it never actually got to a truly unconstitutional or get-in-the-streets worthy level of censorship. You seem to be saying if they actually revoked the license, that would be the red line. But because they never did, no harm, no foul.

What we are saying is that just by making the threat, the censorship has full and complete effect. They don't need to revoke the license to use the power of the government to influence constitutionalally protected speech. They just need to threaten.

bluGill 7 hours ago | parent [-]

It is not fine. I'm saying they should have had the guts to fight

throw0101a 6 hours ago | parent [-]

> It is not fine. I'm saying they should have had the guts to fight

Yes they should have. But ideally we should live in a society that guts aren't necessary because threats are not made, especially from the government.

It's the second part that's the everyone is really worried about.

Cheer2171 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Anyone can say anything.

This is illegal: "Nice business you've got here," the police officer says. "Shame that crime is on the rise. And we don't have as many officers to patrol. But give a donation and we'll take care of you. Don't and we'll stop answering your 911 calls."

Now replace with "We heard what you said about the mayor. Apologize or we'll stop answering your 911 calls."

6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
BoiledCabbage 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I find it hard to take that threat seriously.

Based on everything that has gone one that seems to me at least very naive. There was practically a textbook length document outlining what the administrstion planned to do if they got in power and they are going step by step through it.

The president said there are 4 comedians (who make fun of him) that he wants to get off the air. After this event he posted something along the lines of "2 down, 2 to go." Followed by "Why don't you just force the other two out now?".

There was nothing wrong about what was said - they just already have a plan and pick any small item to claim is the cause.

For example they want to defund left leaning non profits and think tanks. They don't have a reason to. But now they are trying to claim they motivated the Kirk killing - not because they think it did, but because it's what is already their plan.

People still thinking they are being objectives or that there are "norms" left, in my opinion haven't been paying attention.

epistasis 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The threat was taken seriously.

I don't believe you yet that Americans won't stand for it. There have been so many red lines crossed that most Americans don't even know what's going on.

infinite8s 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Would you have gone to the streets for it?

brendoelfrendo 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Americans are standing for it. There's a lot of "I'm a free speech absolutist, but..." coming out of the American right-wing right now.

rdtsc 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

fakeBeerDrinker 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

He was last averaging 129K viewers per episode in the 18-49 demographic, I'd say that is a far better "excuse" than a threat from the FCC. As if DIS doesn't have a legion of attorneys. Give me a break.

vlovich123 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I really don’t understand this argument that he wasn’t popular as if that’s at all relevant. Aside from the cost of putting the legion of attorneys protecting a show that’s not bringing enough revenue and the fact, there’s a broader risk with the Nexstar merger that requires explicit government approval that the FCC also threatened.

More importantly, his viewership didn’t suddenly change and the cancellation came about pretty clearly as a result of the FCC threat and not any business decision the company would have made otherwise. Not a lawyer but I would think that Kimmel has a 1a lawsuit he could bring against DIS and the government.

fakeBeerDrinker 15 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

genghisjahn 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

He was last averaging 220K in 18-49 demographic. That beat out Colbert (barely) and trounced Fallon.

https://latenighter.com/news/ratings/late-night-tv-ratings-q...

fakeBeerDrinker 16 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

epistasis 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If he was averaging suppoosedly bad numbers, why wasn't he fired before? Just a pure coincidence?

I'm not sure if you think people are extremely gullible, because one would have to be in order to buy that line.

If there's a threat going on, and an another excuse the threatened can blame, the threat is no less potent.

esalman 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> networks know they need to pivot somewhere.

Please don't say the pivot is podcasts.

1oooqooq 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

having experience with a dictatorship first hand, all a censor does is veto milquetoast stuff.

gruez 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>It was all milquetoast,

???

It was a very obvious dig at the president. There's still not good justification for the government to step in, but claiming it's "milquetoast" is baffling.

derefr 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Digs directed at the President or the administration are and always have been well within the Overton window in American journalism, and previous Presidents and administrations have just seen them as a fact of life and brushed them off.

Thus “milquetoast”: an implication that any reaction to this is, objectively, an overreaction.

That the current President is a habitual over-reactor does not change that fact. It just means that you can paradoxically be taking a heterodox / outré stance by saying objectively milquetoast things.

add-sub-mul-div 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Have you ever seen a late night show? Monologue jokes about the sitting president practically define the format. Every other president going back decades would just man up and take it.

wvenable 16 hours ago | parent [-]

Except Nixon.

macintux 16 hours ago | parent [-]

For all his flaws, Nixon had a far thicker skin than Trump and infinitely more integrity.

cratermoon 15 hours ago | parent [-]

Nixon didn't have a thicker skin, he was just more patient and calculating in his revenge. Have we already forgotten his "enemies list"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nixon%27s_enemies_list

djohnston 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I guess it depends on the sort of media you consume. I’ve seen Destiny saying conservatives need to be afraid of getting shot, and it seems like he’s still alive.

The other people who lost jobs seemed to have said much more direct and offensive remarks than Kimmel as well.