| ▲ | Wilduck 4 days ago |
| A few ways: 1. An American company benefited from their labor 2. American consumers benefited from the goods / services they contributed to providing 3. American citizens benefited from the services provided by the taxes they pay 4. Other American businesses benefited from their patronage |
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| ▲ | carlosjobim 4 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| Seems like you forgot the American worker in the equation? People who are purely consumers (usually living of real estate gains or entitlements) are of course a huge part of the population, and benefit from everything brining consumer prices down - including cheap labour. And many people are both consumers and workers, so they are benefitted from lower prices at the same time as they're disadvantaged by lower salaries. If they've already got real estate and the biggest expenses in life paid, they are more interested in lower consumer prices. Then you have the people who have a much bigger interest in higher salaries than in cheaper consumer goods. Primarily young workers who need to get a foothold in life. For them it is of utmost importance that salaries increase, even though consumer goods get more expensive, because without a foothold in life they have nothing to live for. |
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| ▲ | varispeed 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You are missing alternative costs of the fact that more people compete for the same resources, Americans get much lower ROI for their education, it hollows domestic expertise. Companies become dependent on foreign workers. Local jobs pay less, people have less money to pay for products and services. Short term - shareholders win, long term - everyone loses except the country of origin, where they can bring the knowledge back and develop their economy. It's like outsourcing, just the foreign workers are onshore. |
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| ▲ | ericmay 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That doesn't seem to be specific to H1B visa issuance does it? This seems to me to be more of a general argument in favor of immigration in general to spur economic activity, which as far as I'm aware is "correct", provided you have to also show your math with things like a potential rise in housing costs/rent, strains on services, perhaps some folks don't actually pay taxes, etc. Some of those items might be short term or temporary, some may not. I don't know. But if we were to take your argument at face value and I generally do because that's what the economists say and makes sense to me, why don't other countries encourage this specific type of immigration? China, for example, or perhaps Japan or Korea? What about New Zealand or Switzerland? |
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| ▲ | dahinds 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | All the countries you mention offer temporary work visas for skilled workers, of varying similarity to an H1B. | | |
| ▲ | ericmay 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Sure, I agree, I guess what I’m trying to understand is why don’t they have even higher rates of skilled worker immigration? Think back to what the person I replied to said about the economic benefits of immigration in general (again which I believe are true based on what I understand). For that matter we can just say the United States offers temporary work visas for skilled workers through the H1B program. Case closed! In the case of maybe New Zealand or Switzerland they represent less than 1% of the global population, most of the talent lives outside of those two countries. Are they importing enough high skilled foreign workers? I’m not sure. Switzerland for examples seems very expensive to immigrate to and get citizenship. But I’m not an expert there, just what I’ve skimmed through online. Or is there more to it? | | |
| ▲ | dahinds 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I think I'm not understanding what comparison you're trying to make. I thought you were expressing some doubt about whether H1B, or temporary skilled worker visas generally, were beneficial for the host country. You asked, "why don't other countries encourage this specific type of immigration" and I pointed out that they do have similar programs. Now you ask "why don't they have even higher rates of skilled worker immigration?" Japan's SSW program has close to 300k workers. The U.S. H1B program has about 700k workers, so by population, Japan's program appears to be a bit larger. New Zealand's AEWV program has 80k workers with a population of 5 million so proportionally that's much larger. |
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| ▲ | bootsmann 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > What about New Zealand or Switzerland? This is already the case. About 30% of Switzerlands population are immigrants (one of the highest percentages in the developed world) and it has a freedom of movement treaty with the EU. | | |
| ▲ | ericmay 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I’m sure you have better data but here is what Wikipedia says: In 2023, resident foreigners made up 26.3% of Switzerland's population.[18] Most of these (83%) were from European countries. Italy provided the largest single group of foreigners, accounting for 14.7% of total foreign population, followed closely by Germany (14.0%), Portugal (11.7%), France (6.6%), Kosovo (5.1%), Spain (3.9%), Turkey (3.1%), North Macedonia (3.1%), Serbia (2.8%), Austria (2.0%), United Kingdom (1.9%), Bosnia and Herzegovina (1.3%) and Croatia (1.3%). Immigrants from Sri Lanka (1.3%), most of them former Tamil refugees, were the largest group of Asian origin (7.9%).
That’s a bit different than what you seem to be implying - according to Wikipedia the immigrant population of Switzerland is just Europeans, mostly Western Europeans at that.With respect to Switzerland, what are the immigration rules and polices if you are Indian, or Chinese, or Brazilian, or Indonesian, or Nigerian? I’m just picking on those countries due to a mix of population levels and relevance to immigration in America. It’s rather surprising to me that Switzerland seems to have little meaningful numbers of immigrants from these higher population countries. Why is that? Is there maybe a specific policy we could point to? Do people from Italy really like the Alps and the Chinese don’t? And going back I think to what is implied by the person I responded to, if what they’re saying is true about the economic value of immigration, and I think it is, why doesn’t Switzerland have, for example, unrestricted immigration from all over the world? Why are half of its immigrants from Italy alone? (Again just going off the Wikipedia article and I am happy to look at any other figures) Are they immigrants or just Italians living and working in Switzerland because of the EU? |
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| ▲ | harimau777 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| That doesn't seem to play out in practice for average Americans. The companies profits primarily go to the capitalists not to average people. That seems to apply to, for lack of a better term, consumerist goods and services like TVs and clothing. Which isn't nothing. However, it doesn't seem to apply to things like housing. America's social safety net is already very weak and only getting weaker. Same as the first point. The benefits of business success primarily goes to capitalists not workers. |
