OP's comment still makes no sense then. H1bs are not hollowing out "middle class" wage earners then - the most you could say is that they are slightly reducing income of high-income earners.

But also, the H1b median salary for a software engineer is ~$120k, which is almost identical to that of the US median overall - so all of this hullabaloo seems pretty groundless.

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A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

<< the most you could say is that they are slightly reducing income of high-income earners

First, I would like you to reconsider 'high income' and putting $120k in that category. It was a good chunk of change. In this year of our lord 2025, it is not. It is, for my region anyway, barely acceptable middle class income.

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runako 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

The median income in San Francisco is $69k. In New York City, it's $41k. Median household incomes are ~2x those numbers.

A $120k job in any region of the country is 'high income'. You are feeling a different effect, which is that we have designed our country such that even high income people often do not feel economically secure.

	▲	A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		Stop. Just because that is the median income does not automatically make it high. The value of the income comes from what it is able to purchase. That value has been steadily eroded over the year. If anything, it is indictment of the existing system. If anything, the proper way of looking at it is that the actual value you are able to get for your work has been greatly reduced. The number is meaningless to anyone, who is able to look at basic reality ( or does not depend on status quo for one reason or another ). The sheer balls on people to suggest that high absolute value automatically means it is high. And that is before we get to how those jobs are are not even in the same category... I am going to stop here, because I don't want to get mean.

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myrmidon 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

If you barely consider yourself middle-class with an income 50% over the median then you are probably at least living in a "high income" region :P

And your self-classification is questionable, but that is very common. Maybe a good trigger to experience gratefulness and satisfaction for the economical situation you are in?

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harimau777 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

IMHO The ability to choose to live in a high income region (or more specifically a cosmopolitan city) is one of the core characteristics of what it means to be middle class.

Partially, that's because increased self determination is part of being middle class. Partionally, that's because the ability to participate in culture (art, music, education, multiculturalism, etc.) is part of being middle class; and those opportunities are highly concentrated in the cities.

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A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I think you misunderstand me greatly and, more importantly, greatly misunderstand the zeitgeist. I am unbelievably thankful for being paid for what I am doing the amount I am paid.

But, and this is the most important part, just because I am in better situation than most, does not make the overall state of the population that much less shitty.

Am I getting through to you?

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jopsen 3 days ago | parent [-]

> does not make the overall state of the population that much less shitty.

Has it ever been better?

Not saying it shouldn't, just that we might have unrealistic expectations.

	▲	3 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		[deleted]
	▲	A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 3 days ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		<< we might have unrealistic expectations. I deleted longer response from yesterday. Long story short, I disagree. If anything, it is unrealistic for anyone to expect that current economic ecosystem is sustainable. I don't expect a lot, but I do expect my standard to improve over that of my parents', not decrease.
	▲	reverius42 3 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Housing affordability was better from 2009-2021 than now. https://www.atlantafed.org/research/data-and-tools/home-owne... Total national health expenditures have grown much faster than population growth: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spe... And yet, over the same time period, life expectancy hasn't gone up that much: https://datacommons.org/tools/visualization#visType%3Dtimeli...

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alephnerd 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Pretty much. All this did is now create a thousand talents program for India.

H1B visa abuse by consultancies and mass recruiters is a real issue, but this now incentivized companies like Google, Meta, Microsoft, Pfizer, Cheveron etc to expand their Indian offices.

Edit: can't reply

> Was there any reason for them not to? It's cheaper than H1B anyways.

Spending an additional $10-15k in visa filing fees isn't that big of a deal for an employer who's already paying around 25-35% in withholding and benefits, but at $100K that makes it enough that if you needed to sponsor 10 people on an H1B, you now hit the monetary amount to avail GCC tax rebates and subsidies in most of Eastern Europe and India, where they will give you an additional $10-20k in tax credits and subsidies per head.

Basically, opening a new office abroad just to save on $10-15k of filing fees per employees wasn't worth it, but now that it'll be $100k per employee, the math just shifted.

> Why is this parasitic organization allowed to incorporate?

VC now, not a director anymore. But help me find a new grad with 3-4 years of exploit development and OS internals experience in the US. I can't.

On the other hand, I can in Tel Aviv. There's a reason the entire cybersecurity industry has shifted outside the US.

Large sectors of the US tech scene just lack ANY domestic know-how.

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red_rech 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

So you’re going to hire foreigners in the US or you’re going to ship the whole operation overseas. Why is this parasitic organization allowed to incorporate?

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giantg2 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"...to expand their Indian offices."

Was there any reason for them not to? It's cheaper than H1B anyways.

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bigfatkitten 4 days ago | parent [-]

Because being in roughly the same timezone as the people you’re managing is underrated.

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giantg2 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

This is mostly just a benefit for mixed teams. If you have entire departments offshore, then you have less cross-zone interaction.

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kelvinjps 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Does it matter for a company at the size of Google?

	▲	disgruntledphd2 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		Yes, as platform teams are generally colocated somewhere else.

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_DeadFred_ 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

OK. But I'm not fighting against them for jobs here. I'm not fighting against H1Bs who are willing to put up with different shared housing situations than I am for housing here.

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h1bnotfound 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

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giantg2 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The median is actually $133k per the BLS.

The upperbound for middle class pay is over $100k in all states, approaching $200k in a couple.

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scarface_74 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How many H1B workers do the WITCH companies employ? They are definitely competing with the “middle class”.

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rramadass 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45306919