Maybe by the textbook definition, sure.

Not a single user finds advertising valuable, and yet it’s the focal point of profit maximization nowadays. Welcome to late-stage capitalism.

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literalAardvark 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Many people find advertising valuable.

It's tracking, micro targeting, retargeting, and trying to sell me a fridge that I literally just bought while I'm off reading about sailboats that's intrusive.

Advertise shoes, cleats, sails, and charters in the Bahamas while I'm doing that, not singles near me and bicycles because I posted in a Facebook group.

	▲	tonyedgecombe 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		>Many people find advertising valuable. Presumably the advertisers do.

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FuriouslyAdrift 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Advertising and public relations has always been applied psychology. The contemporary interation was originally developed by Freuds nephew (Edward Bernays). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

I highly recommend The Century of the Self for a great documentary on the subject. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self

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tpoacher 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Only for modern definitions of advertising, mind you, which are all about dark patterns and invasive marketing, rather than putting a descrption of your product out there that can be searched by interested parties looking to buy a product like yours.

There were times were advertising was useful and desirable, e.g. Small Ads pages.

There was also a time when ads were a single unintrusive scrolling line, curated by the website owner so as to be relevant to their audience. Those were fine.

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grafmax 2 days ago | parent [-]

And yet it’s the profit motive that has driven the shift to widespread usage of dark patterns and invasive marketing.

	▲	tpoacher a day ago \| parent [-]
		We're not disagreeing, but in the sense that the language we use is important, I would not say it's the profit motive, but uncontrolled greed, that has driven this shift. Reasonable profit is necessary. Something needs to put food on the table, both for your own family and that of your workers. What you don't need is a 3 million dollar jet on the table at the expense of both your workers and your customers.

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sdsd 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Welcome to late-stage capitalism

That phrase has always seemed a bit wishful to me, like when Christians describe our era as the end times or when crypto people say "it's still early days".

	▲	yoyohello13 2 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Yeah I think there is probably plenty more pain to come. I mean, we don't even have corporate controlled governments yet. Although that seems to be coming real soon.
	▲	rhetocj23 2 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I dont really get that phrase. I always view people who use it as intellectually lazy.

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phyzix5761 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

How do consumers discover new products and services if not through advertising? A product on a shelf at a store is also a form of advertising proven by how much money is spent on packaging. Word of mouth is also one of the most effective forms of advertising.

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esseph 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> How do consumers discover new products

By looking them up when they need them

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lazide 2 days ago | parent [-]

Sometimes sure, but more often than not they ‘realize’ they need x thing because recently they were told they need x thing. It’s a big oroborous.

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esseph 2 days ago | parent [-]

TBF trying to sell me on anything with a commercial, print advertisement, video ad, cold call, or anything else is an exercise in frustration.

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lazide a day ago | parent [-]

Do you buy…. Paper towels? Most soaps? Specific brands of meat? Go on vacations to specific places?

Chances are, you found out at least some of those due to advertisers. No man is an island.

	▲	esseph a day ago \| parent [-]
		No, I'm pretty much a fucking island. The paper towels I'd probably change if they weren't on a grocery subscription. Soap I just rotate between a few I smelled at the store. Not to say I don't CONSUME, of course I do! I... probably don't in what seems like the ways a lot of people seem to?

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ndriscoll 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Consider "advertising" as shorthand for "paid promotion" i.e. "lying". Why would product or service discovery require the people making recommendations to take money from the producers they're recommending? How could that ever result in a world where customers receive anything but the worst possible recommendations?

Word of mouth: fine

Product on a shelf: fine unless you made a deal with the manufacturer/distributor to put it prominently rather than believing it deserves to be there

Taking money to give an endorsement: Bad. That makes you a liar.

It's the dishonesty at the heart of almost all advertising that makes it bad (well that and the often accompanying implicit push for people to frivolously consume).