People are so emotive about this issue and the online safety act in the UK. They jump to conclusions that applied to any other issue would be conspiratorial.

It's not about "control" and "spying". The fact is it is policing that has been made extremely hard due to technology.

silk road was only busted because the guy had his http proxy responding on the VPS's IP and not just the tor eth. Silly mistake and unfathomably good luck that someone in the investigating team was just googling around.

The politicians are lay people, and only have one tool in their toolbox: laws. So every solution is a legal one.

"Sorry we can't catch the people sexually abusing one million children every year because they use a VPN." Solution? Create a law requiring VPNs to be registered to a user with their address. There's no conspiracy here - it's simple cause and effect. This is a contrived worst case example because this level of accountability? is not currently proposed.

I would prefer other solutions, but these solutions are firstly much easier for the politicians to understand and also much cheaper to implement and see results.

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Bairfhionn 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

But they do find them without the tools. Every other week there are terror suspects arrested. Every week some pedophiles are arrested.

If something does happen later it comes out that the suspects were known already but they just didn't act on the suspicion.

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ethin 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is utter nonsense. The "technology and encryption make law enforcement harder" narrative is pushed by people to gain power. That's all there is to it. Technology has, if anything, made surveillance and law enforcement so much easier than it ever has been before. Law enforcement always wants to look helpless and like the victim though because they want absolute control over your life.

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alexey-salmin 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Silly mistake and unfathomably good luck that someone in the investigating team was just googling around.

No, this is not "unfathomably good luck", this is how the system works. Most of crimes are repeated crimes, most of the criminals are serial criminals. People who obey the law, then break it once, then obey it ever since -- are very rare and even if they're not caught I wouldn't care much anyway.

And if you're a normal criminal doing your criminal stuff day after day and year after year you'll make mistakes. One of them will get you caught.

Never in the history of humanity did the law enforcement cast a net that caught 100% of crime, it always had been the game of probabilities, luck and persistence. Steal once and you'll likely walk away. Steal every day to make a living and you'll get caught many times in your lifetime.

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pakitan 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> "Sorry we can't catch the people sexually abusing one million children every year because they use a VPN."

Bullshit. The UK police basically ignored a pedophile ring under their noses, with zero VPNs involved. I'm not expert on the matter but I'm pretty sure a E2E is not an essential part of sexual abuse.

	▲	graemep 3 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		And the politician ultimately responsible for (as in "she was in charge and failed to prevent/deal with it") the worst child abuse scandal in the UK went on to hold more senior positions and Blair wanted to make her minister for children at one point.
	▲	account42 3 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Exactly. Where is the outcry from the same politicians about the Epstein client list being shoved under the rug by the US? Nowhere? Then they don't actually care about protecting children.

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dns_snek 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah, nonsense, bullshit, whatever you want to call it. Actual pedos will trivially bypass Chat Control by switching to a messaging service that doesn't enforce it, or even by sending encrypted ZIP files via any ordinary messaging service.

> silk road was only busted because the guy had his http proxy responding on the VPS's IP and not just the tor eth

Does this justify every browser reporting every URL you visit to the government, and implementing a government-controlled blocklist of URLs on the off chance that a criminal might use Chrome for their criminal activity?

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flumpcakes 3 days ago | parent [-]

> Yeah, nonsense, bullshit, whatever you want to call it. Actual pedos will trivially bypass Chat Control by switching to a messaging service that doesn't enforce it, or even by sending encrypted ZIP files via any ordinary messaging service.

Yep, and then the politicians will create laws that outlaw encrypting zip files without a backdoor etc. That's my point, there's no nefarious plot here, it's just dumb laws to solve real problems.

I don't want these laws but they're going to be pushed while everyone is just pushing back on conspiracy grounds. That's not going to win over the average person.

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dns_snek 3 days ago | parent [-]

> That's my point, there's no nefarious plot here, it's just dumb laws to solve real problems.

You don't know the plot any more than we do. Whether the current government is nefarious or not is quite irrelevant.

Chat Control is a surveillance and censorship tool that we're being pinkie-promised will only be used "for good". In reality it is a tool which can be repurposed for domestic oppression, political persecution, and crowd control overnight at the government's sole discretion.

> everyone is just pushing back on conspiracy grounds.

That's not a conspiracy, that's just a factual statement about the indiscriminate capabilities of this technology. Governments across the world have a near-100% track record of abusing their power. It's not a matter of "if", it's only a matter of "when".

Otherwise what should we do next? Abolish freedom of speech? You wouldn't be silly enough to believe that the government would imprison you for your political speech, would you? That's conspiratorial thinking.

> That's not going to win over the average person.

Why should we care? If the fact of the matter has been explained to them and they're still gullible enough to give up their most essential civil liberties in exchange for nothing, they're a lost cause and a waste of time.

I don't count on the average village idiot to save the day here, I expect the EU courts to strike the law because it clearly violates the charter of fundamental human rights.

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flumpcakes 3 days ago | parent [-]

Sovereign governments already hold the ultimate power in society. By your reasoning any and all laws are an attack on your liberty.

	▲	dns_snek 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		If you're going to engage in bad faith then I'm not interested. My "reasoning" is firmly rooted in the founding principles of liberal democracies and our legally recognized fundamental rights. Our previous run-ins with fascism is why they exist, and anyone working to delegitimize them needs to be treated with utmost suspicion.