Trains still don't solve last mile transport for most people (even in places with robust transit systems)

Self driving cars might not solve traffic problems but they could greatly reduce them. Problems like traffic waves and gridlock go away when all cars are driving themselves.

▲ jltsiren 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

The last mile is a solved problem. Most people can walk (and many of those who can't would need human assistance anyway). And then there are bikes, electric scooters, and other light vehicles that use space much more efficiently than a car.

Self-driving cars may help with the actual weakness of transit, which is the long tail of trips. Trips on routes with too few passengers to justify good transit service, and with the trips too long for the last-mile solutions.

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RandallBrown 3 days ago | parent [-]

Walking a mile with groceries, a baby, furniture, etc. is not really a solution.

I'm not saying self driving cars are the solution, but they are a piece of the solution.

	▲	jltsiren 3 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Walking a mile with groceries or a baby is common. People in less car-oriented neighborhoods typically do quick visits to a grocery store when it's convenient for them several times a week, rather getting a week's haul of groceries in a single visit. With furniture, you usually pay for delivery. Especially because the furniture store probably doesn't have the items you bought on site anyway.
	▲	542354234235 3 days ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		When there are grocery stores within easy walking distance, people tend to grab the next few days’ worth of groceries. When everything is inconveniently far apart, people drive forever away to get giant stocks of things from Costco to haul back to their house. If people aren’t spending $12k a year[1] to own a car, paying $50-150 to have a large piece of furniture delivered isn’t a big deal. When there is well maintained, pedestrian friendly infrastructure, instead of a tiny uneven sidewalk inches away from 45 mph traffic, pushing your baby stroller home is not an issue. [1] https://www.bts.gov/content/average-cost-owning-and-operatin...
	▲	ben-schaaf 3 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Is it just me or don't people go on walks with their babies/children all the time? Also riding a mile with groceries & babies is trivial. Cars are a piece of the transportation puzzle, but groceries and babies aren't why they're needed.

▲ infotainment 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The last mile problem is only a problem because of poor layout. Build homes and work near transit nodes (instead of in the middle of nowhere) and there isn't a problem in the first place.

> Problems like traffic waves and gridlock go away when all cars are driving themselves.

How would that make those problems go away? It could probably slightly alleviate them in marginal cases, but any given road has a finite throughput limitation, and once it is reached, it wouldn't matter even if every robo-driver were perfectly synchronized.

▲ jswrenn 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Trains still don't solve last mile transport for most people

This has not been my experience since moving to Manhattan last January. Subways, alone, close the gap between regional rail and most destinations astoundingly well. I haven't yet needed to use a bus (but they seem abundant, too), and I haven't even thought of taking a taxi yet.

Here, robust transit has solved the last mile problem for most people.

▲ inferiorhuman 3 days ago | parent [-]

  Here, robust transit has solved the last mile problem for most people.

There are huge gaps in subway coverage in New York. Manhattan, especially Lower Manhattan, is the exception here. Go to the outer reaches of Queens and see where the subway gets you. Try to go between (or sometimes within) boroughs.

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jswrenn 3 days ago | parent [-]

Sure, in areas without robust transit, transit is a problem. But I'm responding to RandallBrown's assertion that there's a persistent last mile issue in areas with robust transit. There's not. Manhattan is evidence that robust transit solves the last mile problem for most people.

	▲	inferiorhuman 3 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		This is the best map I could find: https://cwhong.carto.com/viz/6dfca01c-47e5-11e6-9fd3-0ee66e2... Weasel words are doing a lot of heavy lifting here. There is a persistent last mile issue even in NYC, even in Manhattan. You're right that in Manhattan most people can use the subway as a last mile solution. However that map hasn't changed much in quite a while. The subway deserts that exist (in Manhattan and the other boroughs) aren't going away anytime soon because building new subways is eyewateringly expensive. The inflexibility means that even when the subway is a viable last mile solution it may not be the appropriate one. For instance I had to go from Ridgewood to JFK a few years back. I was maybe a five minute walk from the subway. But were I to take the subway from one end of Queens to the other I would've had to go all the way to Midtown and transfer to LIRR. Hell I've generally had to rely on buses for last mile connectivity even in London which certainly doesn't suffer from a lack of subway service.
	▲	e_y_ 2 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Most cities don't have the density and wealth of Manhattan. How do we solve the last mile problem for everyone else?

▲ Tiktaalik 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

self driving cars will increase traffic as they remove barriers that prevent people that cannot drive from using cars, thus increasing the amount of cars on the road.