People base purchases on more than price. But on price you are essentially correct. They are a money pit if you want to do major upgrades on them and it is often possible to get much better value for money shopping around and this applies throughout Framework's range. Even going DIY on SSD and RAM the other components aren't cheap.

They don't have the manufacturing volumes to compete on price so they compete on appeals to sustainability, repairability etc. It is why I bought one a few years ago and I still use it but I haven't take advantage of any of the upgrades that have been available.

If some keys stop working or my screen gets cracked its my intention to replace parts myself while living in a remote area and not have to worry about keyboard being plastic welded and screens being glued.

It would have been nice to upgrade my motherboard or screen but realistically when the time comes it is going to be cheaper just to buy another laptop on sale and leave Framework behind.

▲ aurareturn 20 hours ago | parent [-]

  They don't have the manufacturing volumes to compete on price so they compete on appeals to sustainability, repairability etc. It is why I bought one a few years ago and I still use it but I haven't take advantage of any of the upgrades that have been available.

If you buy cheap Acer laptops for $400, I believe Framework is better for sustainability.

But if you buy a Macbook, I believe Framework is worse.

▲

shirro 9 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't want to be locked into Apple's ecosystem so they are not an option for me. For others, Apple are in a different league to the rest of the industry with their level of product integration, design, supply chain control etc.

Entry level Apple products can overlap with Frameworks in price but are spec-wise in a very different category. This is very apparent with similarly priced plastic Framework 12 with a 13th gen i5 and entry level Macbook Air. They have hugely different build quality, performance and battery life, all wins to Apple.

A $400 laptop might be worse for sustainability but if you are buying a computer for your kids for school it still makes sense for many people to buy something cheap and cheerful and upgrade in a few years than try and buy for life, at least on the non-Apple side of things. Many people, financially, don't have a choice. Apple devices have tended to have long usable lifetimes in the past but who knows if that will continue.

I hope Framework can help change the industry but they need sustainable margins on low volume manufacturing and supporting them on their mission requires a willingness to look beyond straightforward price/performance comparisons. It is hard to make a general recommendation of Framework products but if you are like me and use Linux and value repairability I think their 13" is still a solid choice.

	▲	aurareturn 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Macbooks tend to last forever. I've had a Macbook Air last 10+ years. I don't see why Apple Silicon Macbooks won't considering how fast they are. Also, Macs tend to get resold over and over again so they contribute to sustainability that way.