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parasti a day ago

What's Microsoft thinking here? We got Windows on our kids' laptops and it's a pain to do anything with every time, just an amalgamation of decades worth of UIs held together with duct tape, looks terrible and performs even worse than it looks. When I'm thinking of the next big upgrade, Windows isn't even on the list of options anymore, and that's not even an ideological statement in any way.

isk517 a day ago | parent | next [-]

I have been asking myself this question repeatedly for the last few months. Windows 11 offers absolutely nothing of substance over Windows 10 and more often than not manages to be less pleasant to use. The Office 365 eco system is a complete disaster of half implemented ideas, most of which can be described as would be pretty useful if it actually worked as advertised(power automate), wasn't abandoned in a half complete state(loosp), or if they implemented simple feature requests that the userbase is asking for(sharepoint). To top it all off they seem to be working tirelessly to ruin the products that actually work and are in demand, every couple of months they threaten to force users to switch to the 'modern' Outlook despite the fact that it still lacks a lot of features that are the very reason businesses still use Outlook in the first place.

sharpshadow a day ago | parent | next [-]

Windows 11 has round corners.

fxtentacle a day ago | parent | next [-]

Someone wanted to make it kid-safe. Except they didn't notice that they are designing a software UI and not a wooden cupboard.

hulitu 15 hours ago | parent [-]

Aha, that's why they choose Tim Burton's movies as an inspiration for the UI colours. /s

hulitu 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This. The best feature ever. Microsoft might not be able to draw shadows, scrollbars, window borders but they sure know how to round corners. Wanna exit word by pressing exit in the menu (i.e. clean exit). No way. You must press the "X" on the upper right window corner and hope that the corners rounding Microsoft engineers handle the "WndClose" message gracefully.

pjmlp 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Security knobs that Windows 10 lacks, better support for containers, WSL features, and DirectX 12 capabilities.

Granted, not everyone cares about them.

_DeadFred_ a day ago | parent | prev [-]

I find I no longer integrate new apps/technology flows into my life because they either won't be supported or will be enshitified/weaponized against me. The future kind of sucks. My smart home is barely hanging on to turning my lights on at dusk (something photo-sensors for lights just did without issue from the 90s on). Android just broke my phone, I can no longer just say 'hey android, play the news' and have it play headlines from real new organization that I specify. Instead it grabs news from I don't know where and gives me Google Gemini approved summaries (that Google states may or may not be accurate).

ajmurmann a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Recently I locked into my old Windows computer after not having done so in about a year and noticed a weird brown symbol prominently in the task bar. It was a promotion for world chocolate day...

garylkz 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Remember Microsoft Edge? Remember Microsoft Teams? Remember Dev Home? Remember Copilot? Yeah it's the same thing everytime.

pjmlp 13 hours ago | parent [-]

People have to remember corporations aren't people, and when there is a change of direction, doesn't mean they got rid of all employees responsible for the old ways.

self_awareness 11 hours ago | parent [-]

How are corporations not people?

Who runs them if not people?

pjmlp 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Corporations are made of people, they aren't people, which is quite different.

self_awareness 10 hours ago | parent [-]

Why it's different?

Decisions are still made by people. Even if Excel is used to calculate the decision trajectory, even if the trajectory is enforced by some law inside the corporation, it's still people who decide that they continue following the road, and it's still people who implement the decision.

pjmlp 10 hours ago | parent [-]

Because when corporations are seen as people, it is anthropomorphism.

self_awareness 5 hours ago | parent [-]

If you don't intend to answer, why comment at all?

pjmlp 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Some people have English comprehension problems, thus my previous answer.

mips_avatar a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Windows exists to perpetuate the next promotion cycle of people working inside of Windows.

prism56 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My kid won't need a laptop for a few more years but i've been using linux and i'm planning on making them use linux. The privacy implications and learning potential could be worth it from an early age.

freedomben a day ago | parent | next [-]

I have done this, and in many ways it has been one of the best parenting decisions I've made. My oldest is a better CLI user now than most engineers I work with, and it came almost entirely from him exploring the system and getting excited about all the cool things he can do. It also made it super easy for me to teach him more self-service things, everything from looking at system logs to see why the xbox controller or even the USB keyboard isn't working, to learning how the software stack is assembled.

For my other kids that don't care about that sort of stuff, even they have become very capable computer users. It's been easy for them to learn Windows and ChromeOS at school. I already see the same pattern of diving deeper developing with my youngest too.

One of the most rewarding things I've experienced as a parent is seeing the hacker spirit still very much alive.

rtkwe a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Make sure they have at least a passing familiarity with Windows and it's apps because like it or not Windows is still the default in the school and working world so they'll have to work with that stuff to some degree. Otherwise go for it.

Side note how's open office compatibility these days? Last time I tried it yeeears ago there were still compatibility problems that would have made group projects hard.

Gud a day ago | parent | next [-]

As a long term *nix user(FreeBSD and Linux) forced to use Windows for work,

I observe that every few years Windows is completely changed. It’s a total hodgepodge of decades of crap. That’s the only thing you need to know.

freedomben a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Purely anecdata, but my kids only use Linux at home and hadn't used anything else until they got (Windows and ChromeOS) computers at school, and they were able to get going quite easily. Honestly I think learning to use a mouse and keyboard is the hardest part since most of these kids grew up using tablets and phones as their first "computers."

Office compatibility still kind of sucks. It's very usable, but still quite a few papercuts. In my kids case though, Google Docs pretty much solves that problem so it's largely been a non-issue.

happymellon 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Make sure they have at least a passing familiarity with Windows and it's apps because like it or not Windows is still the default in the school and working world so they'll have to work with that stuff to some degree

Don't bother. I would have said that I was "familiar with Windows", I used 3.11, NT 4.0, XP, Vista, and 10 to a lesser extent and my wife needed help with her work laptop. Honestly Windows 11 is significantly different and apparently hostile enough that I couldn't find anything.

ranger207 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When I was in college a few years ago everyone did group projects in Google Docs, so Libreoffice compatibility was a moot point

nobody9999 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>Side note how's open office compatibility these days? Last time I tried it yeeears ago there were still compatibility problems that would have made group projects hard.

While Open Office still exists (and is being actively supported), LibreOffice (forked from OpenOffice fifteen years ago) gets more frequent updates, is more broadly used, and is widely preferred over OpenOffice these days.

I use it and it's a nice replacement for the Microsoft Office suite. In fact, I have Microsoft Office and prefer LibreOffice over it.

I suggest giving LibreOffice[0] a look. Many of the compatibility issues have been resolved and it works nicely.

[0] https://www.libreoffice.org/

rtkwe 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah, academically I know that but OpenOffice was king back when I needed it so I forget and default to calling it by the old prefork name.

Since then I've mostly been at a job where Office is provided and rarely have need of it at home.

cmcaleer 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Open Office still exists (and is being actively supported)

Actively supported is a stretch. Look at these commits.

https://github.com/apache/openoffice/commits/trunk/

ndsipa_pomu 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

LibreOffice is definitely a better choice than OpenOffice.

For using Teams, I'd recommend just using the web client. I did try installing the Microsoft native client for Linux, but all it seemed to do was open an empty window (i.e. not drawn in, so it showed what was under where it appeared) and wasn't at all functional. The web client seems to work, though I don't use it very often.

brewdad 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Absolutely. My kid just finished an engineering degree from a well respected institution. Early on in the intro programming classes, about half of his class was unfamiliar with file system structures. Chromebooks and iPads in school and at home meant they had never really encountered them.

There were plenty of other "techy" things that older generations take for granted but kids aren't learning about unless parents show them because they are hidden behind modern OS/software interfaces and usually locked down to prevent discovery.

duxup 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Windows feels more like an adware / advertising driven OS every day.

It's not there for me, it's for Microsoft to have a vehicle to point the OS AT ME.

lioeters 15 hours ago | parent [-]

When you're in Windows, the OS operates you. It is the user and you are the used.

BoredPositron a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Microsoft has spent the past two decades repositioning Windows from a flagship operating system into primarily a delivery vehicle for cloud services, subscriptions, and integrated apps. They are just not interested in providing the user with an OS anymore. For them it's a necessary evil nothing more.

pixl97 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Simply put the economics are behind a locked down click and drool style operating system with a manufacture controlled store that takes 30% of all gross.

The faster we can kill the Apple and Google store monopolies the faster we'll go back to having operating systems/phones that we can at least do something with.

We still have Linux for now, but as we know signed bootloaders present a very large risk.

chankstein38 a day ago | parent | next [-]

I miss usable operating systems that don't feel like they were built for cavemen while people who know how to use them get to click more and more "Additional properties" buttons/links to get to actual useful settings.

distances 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> We still have Linux for now, but as we know signed bootloaders present a very large risk.

Thankfully there is a fair number of Linux-first companies now, so I'm not that worried. It's a real business case now. Years ago there were none, you couldn't even buy a laptop without Windows.

N19PEDL2 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think at Microsoft they know they can do whatever they want with Windows and nothing will change.

In corporate, no manager cares about the operating system their employees use. Unless there's a significant drop in productivity by using Windows, no one will bother with the cost of switching to another OS.

In the private sector, most people buy their computers straight off the shelf, i.e. with Windows. Here at HN, we're tech enthusiasts, but out there those who know what "Debian with GNOME" means are very few, and the rest will at most complain a little about how Windows has become, but then they'll just continue to use it.

brewdad 5 hours ago | parent [-]

The rest of the world, outside HN and similar techy online communities, largely doesn't know Linux exists. They know Windows and Mac. Macs are expensive and unfamiliar. Windows machines are cheap and can be bought at Walmart.

novaleaf a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

anecdote time: I have a Desktop and Laptop running Win11. Over the last month I noticed that when typing in notepad.exe, IT DROPS ABOUT 5% OF CHARACTERS TYPED!!!! On both my computers. How on earth Microsoft could F-Up Notepad (of all things) so badly that it fails at the ONE THING it's supposed to do, I have no idea. At the same time, I notice there is now Copilot integrated with Notepad.... coincidence?

hulitu 15 hours ago | parent [-]

Don't worry. Copilot is just summarizing what you wrote. /s

hirako2000 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Install Linux, they would come out wiser and perhaps even learn how to code.

Windows should be considered mental health hazard.

crinkly a day ago | parent [-]

I completely agree with your latter point after being a windows dev on and off since windows 3.0. It’s been one hell of a rollercoaster.

x0x0 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They're also currently nakedly taking bribes from hardware manufacturers to force upgrades to Windows 11, creating a wave of completely unnecessary hardware purchases. I'm trying to figure out how to help a nontechnical parent run a bypass install to avoid throwing a perfectly fine laptop in the garbage.

It's so necessary to the functioning of Windows 11 that it can be bypassed and Windows 11 works fine. Sure...

crinkly a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Thinking? Plan?

Only thing going on is maximising capital extraction from the moat they created. End users no longer matter as long as the numbers keep going up.

yieldcrv a day ago | parent | prev [-]

> What's Microsoft thinking here?

An upsell and way to justify their 3 trillion marketcap