> Depending on how low they are flying and how large they are

It's a real problem that "drone" gets used for things that can fit in your hand, all the way up to the same size as single-seater aircraft. These seem to be aimed at the latter. The Shahed is more of a slow cruise missile with wings, or the WW2 V1 pulsejet "flying bombs"

(we've not seen the return of the pulsejet, have we? "V1 with modern guidance" seems like it might fit a niche)

Russia has started to fly Shahed drones much higher after Ukrainians became effective with shooting low-flying ones with mobile low cost AAA guns. This made drones easier to detect with radars and shoot with missiles, but missiles cost like 10-100 times more then drones and is not sustainable.

Russia also started to deploy mobile anti-drone guns and there a lot of vides that show their effectiveness but Ukraine still fly drones low as Russia still willing to use expensive missiles against them on massive scale.

a bunch of shotguns or service rifles is not going to help.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Shahed_136

This is what people talk about when they say 'drones' in this context - basically a remote-guided 100 lb bomb flying in a 400lb chassis at 115 mph thousands of meters up.

Agreed - if we're pitting the manufacturing capabilities of NATO (maybe disregarding USA, given Trump's aversion to action) vs Russia then my money would be on NATO, assuming they are motivated to do it.

> Too many in the West still cling to the fantasy that Ukraine is some backward state, when in fact it’s become one of the world’s top drone powers.

Practice makes perfect.

There's some guy in Damascus who knows more about the real world use of the TOW than the people who built it.

> when in fact it’s become one of the world’s top drone powers

It's amazing what you can do when your choices are, in essence, "be destroyed" or "become an expert"

Ukraine was one of the key technology hubs of the USSR - well capable of making their own missiles, etc.

Someone elses war to upskill our own ability to wage war at a fraction of the cost? It's a weapons development dream for any Govt / R&D company

Hell, Poland asked Ukraine to provide some instructors to help them after the recent escalation of airspace violations they had.

Ukraine is seen as backwards because they are open about fighting corruption, which is taboo in the West.

> Too many in the West still cling to the fantasy that Ukraine is some backward state, when in fact it’s become one of the world’s top drone powers.

These are not exclusive concepts. I've seen too many videos of men being literally kidnapped off the street ("busification") to have sweet thoughts about the state.

Russia is already in a low level conflict with NATO even if it's just NATO countries supplying equipment to Ukraine and Russia trying to hack NATO politics.

There is still a taboo against a nuclear weapons state directly striking another nuclear weapons state, under its own flag.

It's hard to take out factories. The UK did a lot of bombing of German factories in WW2 and production still went up.

Russia stockpiles drones.

The drones are rather large: https://osmp.ngo/collection/shahed-131-136-uavs-a-visual-gui... and have a flight ceiling of about 4000m. It is probably roughly comparable to WW2 aircraft, given that it's driven by a piston prop engine. That suggests the need for similar technology such as "flak" anti-aircraft shells. However, that requires line of sight and has limited accuracy, while not being all that cheap to deploy. So if these guided interceptors can be built cheaply, with a decent hit rate, they might end up being cheaper than conventional AAA.

One approach is directed energy, there are laser guns like the UK's dragonfire (there are many others out there too) however these have problems in dusty or foggy conditions for obvious reasons. There are also microwave effectors which are used to fry the electronics on drones. These take advantage of the advances in Gallium Nitride based power electronics (and other even more exotic materials).

These drones probably have US semiconductors in them. If only there was a backdoor ...

Bullets have short range. So now you have to carpet the land with AA guns.

Geran-2's are far too large to be taken out with shotguns. Furthermore, you'd have to anticipate where they would want to strike. Drones, missiles, or lasers are likely the only way to stop them.

Will nato go to war if Russia sends a few drones over a member state?

Of course not.

Nuclear powers would only use nuclear weapons if it's the last resort.

So when in the salami tactics world does it get used?

It's not exactly a new scenario:

Riots in West Berlin, buildings in flames. East German fire brigade crosses the border to help. Would you press the button? The East German police come with them. The button? Then some troops, more troops just for riot control, they say. And then the East German troops are replaced by Russian troops. Button? Then the Russian troops don't go. They are invited to stay to support civilian administration. The civilian administration closes roads and Tempelhof Airport.

I heard it would take 24 hours...