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jamesblonde 4 days ago

In Sweden, we have Swish, thank God. We don't have Greenland either, so people aren't as worried about 'exogenous shocks'.

chvid 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Denmark is in a crazy situation where what we saw as a key trusted partner (the US) all of sudden is extremely hostile towards us due its re-ignited territorial ambitions in Greenland. In public discourse this is being met with riducule and disbelief but I believe behind the scenes in government it is being taken quite serious. And obviously having our payment infrastrcture in the hands of an adversarial nation is unacceptable.

sandworm101 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

>> Denmark is in a crazy situation where what we saw as a key trusted partner (the US) all of sudden is extremely hostile towards us due its re-ignited territorial ambitions

Canada will welcome you at thier clubhouse. Friends are enemies and enemies friends. And Putin is all smiles. (Let us not kid ourselves about who wants disharmony amongst arctic nations.)

jamesblonde 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The worst thing is the lack of solidarity towards the danes here in Sweden. If Trump turns off Microsoft, Sweden will shrug its shoulders and privately say - thank god it's not us. yet.

chvid 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

It is crazy; but it is wake up time for us Europeans. We are already seeing US campaigns against judges and legal scholars in the Netherlands, Italy, and Brazil.

0dayz 4 days ago | parent [-]

Mind sharing those articles?

vincnetas 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/08/us-sanctions...

chvid 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The Brazil stuff is related to the case againt Trump-ally Bolsonaro. The European cases so far have been related to the Israel-Palestine conflict.

The US uses its so-called SDN list which in general prevents the person having a bank account in any western country. It also caused Microsoft to kill off the email account (I believe the full azure services - ie. Active Directory - rendering his work computer useless) of a prosecutor at the international criminal court:

https://www.politico.eu/article/microsoft-did-not-cut-servic...

Microsoft didn’t cut services to International Criminal Court, its president says

Chief prosecutor’s email issues have spurred fears in Europe that Trump could trigger a “kill switch” through U.S. tech giants abroad.

...

A Microsoft spokesperson said that it had been in contact with the court since February “throughout the process that resulted in the disconnection of its sanctioned official from Microsoft services.” The spokesperson added that “at no point did Microsoft cease or suspend its services to the ICC.”

close04 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

The wording is “legally correct” but meant to look like it was an ICC unforced decision. In reality the US sanctioned the ICC chief prosecutor and Microsoft gave the ICC 2 options: either the ICC cuts off their own employee, or Microsoft cuts off the whole ICC. ICC made a choice between these 2 options and all the public statements were then made to not further tarnish Microsoft’s reputation.

To be fair, under US law Microsoft doesn’t have much choice either. Companies operating under US law inherit the untrustworthiness that comes with this.

chvid 3 days ago | parent [-]

Yes. That is is the issue. These laws of the US have been around for a long time; what is new is that traditionally allied countries are now the target of them. And for activities that are at the heart of our legal sovereignty.

ahartmetz 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

>Trump-ally Bolsonaro

There is a book "Autocracy Inc." about this curious, somewhat recent phenomenon of autocrats everywhere supporting each other. It's like autocracy itself is more important to them than their countries' interests.

impossiblefork 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In which kind of environment is this?

Because I too am a Swede and in mine I don't think the normal attitude is one where we have any limit to our commitment to Danish territorial integrity.

chvid 3 days ago | parent [-]

Your government is probably just as shit scared of the US as our is.

impossiblefork 3 days ago | parent [-]

They do as they do.

We do as we have said we will. There's no reason to be afraid. We get what we get and if they come we'll fight.

jamesblonde 3 days ago | parent [-]

Not if they come for the Danes, we won't!

impossiblefork 2 days ago | parent [-]

If they come for the Danes, we can't. You know as well as I that that is not tolerable.

But, meming-aside: you know we will.

hnbad 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

East Germany had a strategy for dealing with political opponents it referred to as Zersetzung. The FBI had a similar operation for political movements like the Black Panthers that's widely known as COINTELPRO. Both of those very evidently extremely successfully but ended decades ago.

We know that Russia still uses similarly subversive tactics internationally, especially in public messaging (popularizing multiple mutually contradictory narratives at the same time to compete with any attempt at "factual reporting", e.g. in its many justifications and descriptions during the early months of the invasion of Ukraine or following the infamous civilian plane crash during the "civil war" before that). There have also been credible accusations against China of employing disinformation campaigns to disrupt criticism. The first year of Israel's ongoing military campaign (initially in Gaza) also saw many people pointing out what they described as examples of Hasbara.

Under the first Trump presidency we saw the term "alternative facts" being used by US officials. Trump himself also popularized the term "fake news". Trump even bragged about "stopping Nord Stream 2", implying US involvement in the sabotage that so far has been considered to have been carried out by Ukranian nationals.

We also know (via Snowden and Wikileaks) that under the Bush and Obama governments the US actively used its intelligence apparatus even against its allies, at the very least for surveillance operations and infiltration (allegedly even industrial espionage). There's also the dissolved BND/CIA co-operation (via a Swiss proxy I think?) that came apart when the German BND was dissatisfied with the CIA's willingness to sell the faulty encryption technology they were disseminating to their shared allies to maintain cover for the operation.

During the Euromaidan protests (2014), the US diplomat was caught on tape exclaiming "Fuck the EU". During the Security Conference earlier this year, VP Vance explicitly promoted European far-right political movements and questioned the legitimacy of European countries' governments. Trump himself has repeatedly referred to the EU as an organization created for the specific purpose of screwing over the US.

In aggregate, the EU's nominal GDP right now is slightly higher than that of China. Germany alone has the third-highest nominal GDP in the world right now.

The US has for a long time at least engaged in hostile behavior against its own allies, including the EU. Trump has at several points been openly hostile against the EU. Trump has been promoting a policy of unilateral "peace through strength" over promoting cooperation and the pretense of mutual benefit and engaging in trade wars against all of its trading partners.

The US is acting as a hostile force against the EU and has redefined the EU as a hostile entity. It hasn't severed diplomatic nor economic ties to the EU but neither has it to China. Whatever you think the US might stomach to covertly do against China it therefore stands to reason they would have an interest in also doing against the EU. It's also worth considering that militarily China poses a much greater risk of retaliation and the EU is currently much more economically dependant on the US than China is (especially following the sanctions against Russia which previously acted as a major trading partner in the region and the rising tensions in the Middle East).

It seems extremely plausible to me that the US engages in activities intended to disrupt the integrity of the EU and consequentially the mutual trust and diplomatic relationships between EU member states. We know (with receipts) that Russia has been directly contributing to far-right nationalist anti-EU political movements throughout Europe prior to the invasion of Ukraine and even before Trump's first term and continues to support the anti-EU rhetoric of a "Europe of fatherlands" intended to fragment and individualize EU member states either as a "divide and conquer" tactic or at least to reduce their collective capability for actively opposing Russia's interests.

We don't know what the US has been doing or is doing beyond what it has been doing in the open. But given how much deeper the US's battle chest runs and how advanced its offensive technology (both from private industry and internally) that we know of is, it seems far more likely to me that this is not because it doesn't exist but because they've been better at not getting caught. Not to mention that European governments still refuse to treat the US with the same level of suspicion they treat China or Russia, thus making it far easier for the US to get away with actions even when they are caught. There's no need to worry about your covert operations becoming public when their target actively collaborates in supporting your operations against them.

4ggr0 3 days ago | parent [-]

> There's also the dissolved BND/CIA co-operation (via a Swiss proxy I think?)

sounds like Crypto AG[0]

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG

throw7448488 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

port11 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Maybe the USA should do a better job at managing the USA? Compared to the EU, it has more crime, worse life expectancy, more alcoholism, problems with rail infrastructure… you see, that's a bit of a silly argument.

throw7448488 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

At least there are rails or roads! Imagine the only way to get from LA to SF was 5 day ferry that goes every two weeks, or tiny cesna!!!

Zwhdf3e7 4 days ago | parent [-]

Have USAID and the National Endowment Fund moved their soft power operations from Georgia and Thailand to Greenland and Venezuela?

robbingtherob 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Truly silly. One can all of these bring up for "Europe". Maybe not life expectancy (if you avoid public transport and Christmas markets), but all others match for Germany too.

jandrewrogers 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The poor lifestyle statistics seem to be a property of Arctic life generally, it isn’t unique to Denmark or any country with Arctic settlements. Humans are adaptable enough to survive up there but they don’t really thrive.

That is pretty obviously the nature of the environment. You can’t blame Denmark for it being like that, it isn’t a function of resources delivered. No one has ever been able to convert any part of the polar regions into a glorious utopia.

throw7448488 4 days ago | parent [-]

Job opportunities, access to education...

There is no basic infrastructure there! First deliver that, than blame "polar regions". Denmark ks treating Greenland as it's colony!!!

Iceland has very similar situation, but farfar better infrastructure!!!

guappa 4 days ago | parent [-]

You are entirely right. And apparently if you go to jail they place you in denmark so you can't receive visits.

Yes greenland is a colony. But I don't think that making them USA's colony would improve their situation… see how the natives of guam or hawaii are doing for example.

TrojanHookworm 4 days ago | parent [-]

Greenland is an autonomous territory, not a colony. Hasn't been since 1953.

guappa 4 days ago | parent [-]

Poteto potato…

TrojanHookworm 4 days ago | parent [-]

Not really. Since Greenland is a county, not a colony, their government has self-rule (albeit limited), including the option of pursuing independence, and their citizens have access to the amenities of the metropole (healthcare, education etc.).

guappa 3 days ago | parent [-]

And why do people end up in denmark in jail then?

TrojanHookworm 3 days ago | parent [-]

What does this have to do with whether or not Greenland is a colony?

infinite8s 3 days ago | parent [-]

In what other country does a jail sentence mean you get sent to another country to serve the sentence? (Except maybe the US now with detained immigrants)

TrojanHookworm 3 days ago | parent [-]

Nuuk has had its own closed prison for a while now, with inmates in Denmark given the option to transfer there. I don't know how many are still in Herstedvester but it can't be many and afaik they are not forced to stay there. Is this what you're referring to?

I'm not disputing the colonial history of Greenland/Denmark or the oppression inflicted on the Inuit (which didn't end in 1953) but I struggle to see the point you and the other poster are trying to make. You both seem to be making insinuations based on facts that are simply not true/up to date.

chvid 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Do you think the US is going to build railroads in Greenland?!

Anyway the campaign for Greenland is ramping up. And it goes from all the way from weird social media posts, oddly timed attacks on Danish companies (Orsted), huge US "diplomatic" build up in Nuuk, weird "little green men", various statements of agression by Trump and surrogates. And there is a Danish campaign on other side with a silly number of visits by the PM and the king, lots of political wins for the Greenlanders, Danish military build up, French involvement etc.

Entertaining to follow and also with consequences in unrelated fields like tech.

throw7448488 4 days ago | parent [-]

I expect US would build more infrastructure. Maybe even rail eventually. So yes!

Alaska seems to be doing pretty well!

Denmark treats Greenland as pristine natural reserve, where people should not exists, and are just nuisance!

vidarh 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

I suggest you look at a map, and then look at a list of cities and their populations.

> Alaska seems to be doing pretty well!

Alaska has towns not connected by roads and rail, so maybe you could start there. Maybe start by connecting Nome[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nome,_Alaska

Zwhdf3e7 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Rubio has really repurposed USAID to regime change Greenland.

nutjob2 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It's a self governing entity, why are you blaming Denmark?

throw7448488 4 days ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

TrojanHookworm 4 days ago | parent [-]

[dead]

vodou 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Swish is great, but it is sensitive infrastructure. It has already been down multiple times due to DDoS attacks (together with BankId). Don't let Swish completely replace a stash of cash at home.

benrutter 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

I've got bad news for you on that front: https://www.explorsweden.com/sweden-destinations/sweden-a-ca...

(tldr Sweden is pretty cashless and a lot of shops don't accept cash)

dijit 4 days ago | parent [-]

speaking from a Swedish perspective, I haven’t even seen Swedish currency in about eight years.

I’m not even joking.

eptcyka 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

There are lots of places where most customers still pay in cash. Mostly ethnic minorities in stores that cater for ethnic minorities. I find it interesting that ethnicity or religion would end up being a signal informing if one is using cash or digital money.

guappa 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's your personal choice. Doesn't mean stores don't accept cash.

dijit 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

No, its the nature of the country.

And, most companies don’t take cash, especially smaller ones.

Large companies (ICA the supermarket) takes cash but it’s like 1/200 who use cash and the cashier is often visibly flustered when cash is presented.

guappa 4 days ago | parent [-]

Please stop mansplaining (and wrongly so at that!).

I happen to be in sweden in this very moment. And no, cashiers are not flustered and alarmed when they see cash, old people pay with cash every day.

Yes there is some restaurants that will not take cash.

Last april I was in a place where they did not take cards :)

There's more to sweden than what you personally experience.

benrutter 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Curious where abouts you are in Sweden? (i.e. how far north/south).

I'm not Swedish but a lot of my family are, so I visit fairly often. In Gothenburg at least, it's pretty standard in my experience that small grocery stores won't accept cash. I won't pretend that generalises anywhere else.

nandomrumber 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

What does gender have to do with this conversation?

guappa 4 days ago | parent [-]

Unfortunately there is no term for "stop explaining my own country to me", but there are similarities with that other situation so… a rhetorical figure? Heard of those?

dijit 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

There was a term: condescending, which is ironic because you were being quite condescending in your reply to me about my observed experience being somehow a personal choice.

I could write a huge diatribe of statistics and behaviours that back me up, it's quite public that even in 2022 across the entire country only 8% of transactions were made in cash- which is even lower in the cities. https://www.riksbank.se/globalassets/media/rapporter/betalni...

And it's also quite well known that many independent businesses do not accept cash (my Coffee Shop, the restaurants I frequent (Quan in Malmo, Marvin in Malmo)).

And yes I've visibly seen cashiers recoil after putting a transaction through to the payment terminal; only to have the person tell them that they'd rather pay in cash (leading to the cashier becoming flustered).

Yes, it's more common that old people use cash (from my observed experience) but increasingly they're using debit cards (not mobile payment methods like younger folks), but no: the country is pretty much cashless; and coming from the UK (where not accepting cash is definitely a more controversial decision outside of London): here it's seen as pretty normal to say "no cash" or "cash free".

Speaking for: Stockholm, Malmo, Gothenburg, Lund, Sundsvall, Oskarshamn and Umeå, and after being in the country for 11 years. I'm not sure what other representation I should be seeing.

Talking about my personal observed experience doesn't invalidate yours, but it feels like I can speak for the overwhelming majority of the population here.

And incidentally I'm also in Sweden right now (https://mrkoll.se/person/Jan-Martin-Harris-Harasym-Kattsunds...); if you'd like me to document a day trying to use only cash I'll let you know how it goes. But I won't be able to get to work (Malmo Busses do not take cash) and I won't be able to eat at any of the restaurants in Malmo (Saluhallen and the others I mentioned above are entirely cashless) so I'll have to use COOP, Willis or ICA exclusively.

guappa 4 days ago | parent [-]

Well I've seen a lot of incompetent cashiers. Especially in summer when the real ones are on vacation. I'm not sure what that proves besides that being a cashier isn't as easy as you might think.

I assure you that pressbyrån accepts cash and you can buy tickets there to get to work. Also having a long subscription for public transport on the phone is a bad idea, because if you drop your phone you'll also lose your subscription. And depending on how many days you had left and what phone you had, it could cost you more than the phone.

And handpicking restaurants that don't accept cash is no more a proof than if I were to do the same but handpicking restaurants that don't accept cards.

dijit 4 days ago | parent [-]

Happy to hear of any restaurants that only take cash in Sweden tbh

guappa 4 days ago | parent [-]

Wasn't your claim that they won't take cash at all? Why the sudden shift?

Anyway it was a place i went in april, i'll have to look it up, i don't really remember.

dijit 4 days ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

guappa 4 days ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

dijit 4 days ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

nandomrumber 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

patronizing

BDPW 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Many many restaurants and stores never accept cash here. This would be a huge problem if cash suddenly becomes the only way of paying for everyone at the same time.

guappa 4 days ago | parent [-]

Stores accept cash. Some restaurants don't, but restaurants aren't really something necessary for survival.

victorbjorklund 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah, I don't know if I even seen the new money.

jamesblonde 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It's another knife in the drawer.

victorbjorklund 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On the other hand, Swish is fully owned by a couple of banks together. So they have full control over Swish and also over BankID, which means that they can deny people from access or if they are down then you know we're screwed. So even if it's not relying on one single company it's relying on a few companies that work together. So instead of a monopoly it's a cartel.

vintermann 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

And as a practical matter, they make sure everyone has a smartphone firmly managed by either Apple or Google, with the excuse of protecting us from ourselves.

jamesblonde 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Those banks are under Swedish jurisdiction. Big difference.

cess11 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We've invited foreign occupation through the DCA with the US and there was very little resistance so clearly few swedes care about sovereignty and territorial integrity, which changes in which I assume is what you mean by "exogenous schocks".

dijit 4 days ago | parent [-]

[dead]

guappa 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

And? Remember when all coops closed for a few days due to a ransomware to some USA company?