Terrible. Especially given that the Seattle area has terrible traffic and also issues with safety on public transportation (like many other cities in America). What is the point exactly of getting workers into an office just so they can be on Zoom calls (or Teams, in this case)? This seems a lot like what Amazon was accused of - a way to shake out some workers and get them to quit when they cannot rearrange their life on a whim.

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titanomachy 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

> issues with safety on public transportation

Do you know the stats on what percentage of transit rides result in some sort of assault or theft? It’s always felt pretty safe to me, although you certainly do end up sharing space with some very disadvantaged people.

My issue with US transit is mostly speed and convenience. Even with the traffic it usually takes 3x as long to get somewhere by transit, unless my destination lines up perfectly with the routes.

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lobf 5 days ago | parent [-]

I know the stats and they're absolutely damning.

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics...

You're orders of magnitude more likely to die in a car vs on a bus.

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SilverElfin 5 days ago | parent [-]

Deaths are one problem, but they may also not be distributed evenly. Some cities or states have more issues on public transit than others. But also you can still be a victim of assault, harassment, theft, and other issues on public transit. Many of these issues also go unreported or don’t get counted in official stats if not accompanied by a formal police report or whatever. So it doesn’t tell the full story of what people’s real experiences are.

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fzeroracer 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

I live in Seattle and take the public transit almost every day since I don't have a car. The real experience which you seem to care about is that I haven't had any issues and most of the fear people spread around public transit is made up.

	▲	Izikiel43 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		I always dread travelling by bus in seattle, waiting for what crazy will get on that day, and it affects most buses as they all go to downtown, where most of the homeless/addicts are.

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lobf 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

>Some cities or states have more issues on public transit than others.

Sure, but that doesn't change the stats.

>But also you can still be a victim of assault, harassment, theft, and other issues on public transit.

As can you in a car.

>Many of these issues also go unreported or don’t get counted in official stats if not accompanied by a formal police report or whatever.

They use estimates for unreported crimes. I trust the institution to provide the best possible data.

>So it doesn’t tell the full story of what people’s real experiences are.

Do you think there's any chance in hell that actual deaths / injuries on public transport even begin to approach those in cars?

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titanomachy 5 days ago | parent [-]

I think people in this thread (and elsewhere) are using "unsafe" to mean "I feel uncomfortable" rather than "there's a serious chance that harm will come to me".

Law enforcement in liberal cities might overlook public urination or petty theft by the mentally ill, but they come down hard on violent crime. Truly violent people are not allowed to roam free on public transit. There's definitely some weird people though, and our society is segregated enough that most rich people probably can't tell the difference between a violent weirdo and a harmless one.

	▲	lobf 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		And don't forget, you're more likely to encounter a road-rager threatening you than some person on a bus.

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dml2135 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would challenge you to find statistics that show that any public transit system in the U.S. is more dangerous than driving.

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SilverElfin 5 days ago | parent [-]

How are you defining ‘dangerous’? Are you counting deaths? Or also things like assault, robbery, sexual harassment, drug abuse (second hand smoke or needles), etc? What about crimes that take place around transit but not on transit itself, like crimes near a train station or whatever? I think it’s easy to construct narratives that are misleading both with data and without data. My point is simply that for many people, they feel safer in private transit and would prefer it. I see some other people here talking about some shuttle network Microsoft runs - presumably that is also a private option and it likely exists because public transit isn’t something many Microsoft employees want to deal with.

	▲	johnnyanmac 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		we define transit by accidents, because it's a bad argument to say "you don't experience harassment by yourself." by that logic we may as well close down parks and libraries and privatize those with single rooms.

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robotnikman 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Remote work means traffic congestion gets better and also helps solves the affordable housing crisis, as people can then choose to live in areas with a lower cost of living but further away from the inner city.

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stocksinsmocks 5 days ago | parent [-]

I think the return to office phenomenon is inevitable because employers externalize transportation costs, but internalize value capture from employees being in presumably a less distracting and more controlled environment. It’s a systems problem where the incentive only goes one way. I think you could have a balancing incentive of providing employers tax credits if they can prove that they are using remote or partially remote employment. I would even extend this incentive to employers that can show that their work hours are not overlapped with peak traffic hours. 20% of traffic volume might be in a single hour, and highway capacity is often built around accommodating need of only 2 hours of the day. Your state DOT is probably a top 3 expense for the state government.

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coredog64 5 days ago | parent [-]

Pre-pandemic, I had multiple employers that were incentivized via the state and county government to push remote working, ride sharing, and transit utilization as a means of reducing overall government spending on roads and road maintenance. It typically showed up as small benefits to the employee, like a monthly drawing for a $50 Target gift card or preferential parking spots. Based on that, I got the sense that while it may have been helpful in the aggregate, it wasn't wildly cost effective.

	▲	robotnikman 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		My state basically did the exact same thing, monthly drawing for gift cards included.

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blackguardx 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I worked at Microsoft pre and post-pandemic. Microsoft has an extensive shuttle network, but the public transit (Sound Transit) to the office was nicer in many ways. It ran more frequently and the seats reclined!

	▲	dymk 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		The Connect shuttles are pretty bad if you live anywhere in South King County or north of U-village. The drop-off points aren't near transit stations.

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pfannkuchen 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Isn’t most Microsoft presence in the Seattle area on the east side? I haven’t heard of the kinds of public transit safety issues that happen in the city happening there. Traffic still applies though.

	▲	Izikiel43 5 days ago \| parent [-]
		The 520 bridge and the i5 conection have hov dedicated lanes, or are working towards it.