Remix.run Logo
toast0 5 days ago

> I think this space is ripe for disruption, but there are only a handful of companies who could make a go of it… and I think they’d lose a lot of money for a long time while they tried.

If you have to lose a lot of money for a long time to compete, how is it ripe for disruption?

YouTube works because it has eyeballs, content/creators, advertisers, a cdn, and has made enough piece with large copyright license holders that it's allowed to continue.

Competing with YouTube is certainly possible, and there's a lot of fun technical work, but there's also a big challenge to attract the people you need to make the thing work. You probably already need to already have two out of four of users, content, advertisers, cdn. And you need to get licenseholders on board quick. And probably law enforcement as well.

I'm not saying it is or isn't a monopoly, but it would be hard to compete with. I think monopoly would depend on the defined market... a broadly defined market might include netflix and even cable tv. A narrowly defined market would include durably published user uploads, which has a lot fewer entrants.

Theodores 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

In the UK we have the venerable BBC which is struggling with the revenue model, cost of broadcasting and much else. I am not a fan but I think that under new leadership they could do the disruption.

In what way?

Youtube is not social media. Nobody makes new friends whilst on YT. However, broadcast TV in the olden days before satellite TV and video recorders provided a shared conversation for the whole nation. You could spark up a conversation by asking a friend if they saw something on the TV during the previous evening. Nowadays people say DON'T TELL ME, I HAVEN'T WATCHED IT YET with no further conversation possible without changing topic.

A video platform could build community by letting people know if their friends and family have enjoyed watching the same programmes. Also possible is a mechanism whereby you can have a schedule made just for you. I have two YT faves, one which is fun (parasocial relationship) and another which is intellectual. If it is early in the evening and I am possibly relaxing with food then I will want the former, not the latter. On a daily basis I could have what we had in the olden days, light entertainment in the early evening and stuff that requires some brain cells later.

Revenue is always interesting and the state broadcasters in the English speaking world might as well pool resources and supply content people enjoy as soft propaganda on a free basis with no adverts. If the CDNs are in place with everything cached with a little bit of P2P, the cost model for delivery could be improved on.

PaulDavisThe1st 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> A video platform could build community by letting people know if their friends and family have enjoyed watching the same programmes.

The answer is "no", which is why YT is so amazing

dghlsakjg 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't know what their licensing deals look like, but they should sell subscriptions in foreign countries.

I pay $5cad/mo to get ad free access to the CBC catalog. I would gladly pay the same or even double for the BBC catalog or iPlayer (whatever its called).

OJFord 4 days ago | parent [-]

They don't even offer that in the UK. Madness, imo, but true.

(iPlayer is free if you're a licence fee payer, but it's nothing close to the full back catalog, it's more like an 'aired recently' DVR with a tuner for every channel. Wouldn't at all be surprised if it's not even everything current though.)

(The Britbox joint venture with ITV was arguably closer to that, but still not, a curated collection.)

pjc50 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

BBC are going in the opposite direction by locking down BBC Sounds/iPlayer against overseas users, presumably for licensing reasons.

> Youtube is not social media.

But it is (as you point out) parasocial media.

3RTB297 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Competing with YouTube is certainly possible,

It is, but it's hard to gain the same audience share for all the reasons you mention.

Just ask Dailymotion, Vimeo, Twitch, Odysee, Peertube, Rumble, Kick, BitChute...

whatevaa 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Peertube is not comparable. P2P has tradeoffs.

Computer0 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

It looks cool though, I hadn't heard of it. It seems like not many of the example websites had enough video traffic to have any of the upload offloaded from the servers to any peers though.

roenxi 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It is technically different and there are trade offs, but that isn't much of an argument - at the end of the day we need to send yea many bytes of data from server to client with a known format. I watched a PeerTube video yesterday and it was the same experience as watching a YouTube one. Some company could implement YouTube by running large servers as peers if the unit economics made sense and it'd work.

The problem PeerTube has is that there isn't demand for what it is doing because YouTube is a pretty good video custodian. Although everyone seems to be sensibly alert to the risk that they eventually go bad, right now it works. Obviously don't expect any video currently on YouTube to be available in 20 years though.

bawolff 4 days ago | parent [-]

> I watched a PeerTube video yesterday

But did you watch it from a site operating at scale? Its easy to be youtube at low scale.

MavropaliasG 4 days ago | parent [-]

PeerTube is built to scale, the more users the better bandwidth because you stream from peers

bawolff 4 days ago | parent [-]

That's nice in theory. In practise though im doubtful. Churn is going to be much higher on something like peer tube than something like traditional bit torrent. Access patterns might also potentially be distributed badly for some videos.

Not to mention the long tail of less popular vidros.

MavropaliasG 4 days ago | parent [-]

Why don't you go and watch some videos on PeerTube and see the practice for yourself?

bawolff 4 days ago | parent [-]

Because peertube is not operating at scale so the issues i mentioned wouldn't be present.

roenxi 3 days ago | parent [-]

If the issues you are worried about aren't present yet, then logically right now it would be a comparable to and a competitor with YouTube. People in the main don't avoid web services because of hypothetical technical problems that might exist in the future but that the design seems superficially resistant to.

PeerTube actually does have technical issues in there here and now, but the number one problem is just that YouTube is an excellent service preferred by both users and advertisers and PeerTube doesn't seem able to outdo it in any meaningful way.

bawolff 3 days ago | parent [-]

> If the issues you are worried about aren't present yet, then logically right now it would be a comparable to and a competitor with YouTube

By that logic, AWS free tier is a competitor to youtube.

eloisant 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

That's because it's a winner-take-all market. Any of those could have won and get the monopoly instead, and Youtube would have starved, but Youtube is the one who won.

And don't say Youtube was first, Dailymotion is slightly older than Youtube.

mystifyingpoi 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> and there's a lot of fun technical work

Maybe it's just me, but I don't find such kind of work "fun". I would have a constant feeling of "well, we are simply trying to mimic what YT did, maybe we should just hire someone that worked there and do the same, instead of going through the same inevitable mistakes".

phantomathkg 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Some people think dealing with the following are fun.

Handling massive amount of video ingestion from content creator; Transcoding to various format that is optimal for various devices, Live streaming with Live to VOD, Geo restriction, Live Commenting, Ad insertion and penalise adblocker, Recommendation engine.

There are many features and challenges that are unique to OTT streaming applications and running at YouTube scales makes it even more challanging, or fun to some, to handle.

tombert 4 days ago | parent [-]

I am somewhat in that class. Figuring out ways to horizontally scale video processing at the scale of YouTube sounds like a neat problem.

Obviously pretty much anyone here can get an extremely basic YouTube clone done in an afternoon or two. Spin up RabbitMQ, write an upload web server, transcode the video with ffmpeg and store it somewhere, serve it via HTTP. That’s trivial, but YouTube has to deal with 500 hours of new video every minute [1]. At those levels, the basic “senior engineer solutions” to problems stop being as appropriate, and I think those kinds of problems are ridiculously fascinating.

The annoying thing is that since YouTube has a monopoly and I have somehow managed to fail Google’s personality test multiple times, I don’t think I’ll ever get a chance to work on that kind of problem.

[1] https://www.globalmediainsight.com/blog/youtube-users-statis...

4 days ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
knowriju 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

YouTube already has a very big albeit usual competitor - PornHub.

Gee101 4 days ago | parent [-]

I can't seem to find any car related videos on the competitor. :)

jszymborski 4 days ago | parent [-]

Disproportionate amount of bus and taxi related videos though.

tonyhart7 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

nah its too late honestly, if big tech didn't want or care to make competing platform

how can you expect company that has less resource make an alternative ???? I still remember when microsoft throwing money to make mixer (twitch alternative) and yet it failed miserably

tiktok is close as we can get honestly, but youtube also expand toward shorts

vitorgrs 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Pretty sure Microsoft also tried to compete with Youtube once upon a time. Forgot the name...

recursivecaveat 5 days ago | parent [-]

Soapbox was their competitor way way back. More recently they had Mixer, though that was more of a Twitch like service. They spent a ton of money paying streamers to use it, but the network effects are just too strong.

Gigachad 5 days ago | parent [-]

People have to be sufficiently discontent with the current offering. It's like game publishers throwing money at buying exclusives for their game stores. People have to not like Steam first.

umeshunni 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Facebook tried "Facebook Watch"

5112314 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Agree, another point is that video content making is a space full of grifters, unlike other form of media.

Take Kick for example, made to compete against Youtube and Twitch, but ended up with mostly people who are banned by those 2 platforms for a good reason. "Kick streamers" is now a negative words.

So new players on this field has to be specific about curating the people posting on their platforms.