Eh, idk who Hinton is, but I’d cut him some slack for making both statements- I could imagine a case where “creatives” can semantically be understood as “new blue collar.” Musicians, dancers, photographers… are not blue color manufacturing employees, but they are fiscally more similar than their white collar counterparts. It’s possible he used inconsistent terms because he really means “low-wage employees who are far away from the monetary benefit creation decisions,” but that’s a mouthful

▲ gobdovan 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Hinton is the guy from the article. He is a big figure in AI research.

For context: he once argued AI could handle complex tasks but not drawing or music. Then when Stable Diffusion appeared, he flipped to "AI is creative." Now he's saying carpentry will be the last job to be automated, so people should learn that.

The pattern is sweeping, premature claims about what AI can or can't do that don't age well. His economic framing is similarly simplified to the point of being either trivial or misleading.

	▲	SanjayMehta 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Carpentry is already partially automated. I’ve worked on cutting algorithms to minimise waste. There are a number of startups which will go from a 3D interior design to manufacturing. Think of customised Ikea.

▲ glitchc 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

If you don't know who Geoffrey Hinton is, I suggest you make a trip to Wikipedia post haste. Our modern LLM renaissance wouldn't exist without him.

▲ nurettin 2 days ago | parent [-]

Ehhh it sounds like he's a poster boy who rode on the success of others (LeCun, Deepmind) and says whatever the current popular opinion is until proven wrong and shows no hint of predictive capability.

▲ glitchc 2 days ago | parent [-]

Say what? Show some respect, son!

Hinton published the seminal paper on backpropagation. He also invented Boltzmann machines, unsupervised learning and mixture of ecperts models. He championed machine learning for 20 years even though there was zero funding for it through the 80s and 90s. He was Yann LeCun's PhD adviser. That means Yann LeCun didn't know ass from tea kettle until Hinton introduced him to machine learning.

Know perchance a fellow by the name of Ilya Sutskever? ChatGPT ring any bells? Also a student of Hinton's. The list is very long.

▲ pizzalife 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

“Show some respect?”

Do these historical accolades give him a blank check to be wrong in the present?

	▲	eloisant 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		re-read the comment he was responding to. "sounds like he's a poster boy who rode on the success of others" The person who wrote that didn't even bother checking who Hinton was before pulling that sentence out of their ass.

▲ nurettin 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Frankly, this all sounds like hero worship and the language is very cringe.

I know the backprop paper. I've read it in the early 2000s. And I remember Hinton as a co-author. Same with Boltzmann machines. Co-author. "Advisor to that great guy", "Teacher of this great guy", "Nobel price together with that guy" <- all of this leads me to the above conclusion. YMMV

▲ polotics 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

just one example of the halo effect: having been instrumental in the development of an important technology doesn't magically make one an expert in the economic impact of that technology, as economy is a completely different field of study

▲ glitchc 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm not a fanboy, far from it. I'm not affiliated with the lab or his work. I'm not even a big fan of machine learning. But Hinton's contributions to the field cannot be understated. He single-handedly kept it alive for two decades amid a massive lack of funding. Anyone who has worked in research will attest that this is an incredible feat.

People on Hacker News seems to idolize the lone genius who somehow pulled himself up from his bootstraps. That person does not exist. The truth is that great minds are made, moulded into shape. That the best people behind our AI technology emerged from his lab is no coincidence. Those trash-talking Hinton on this forum are unlikely to achieve 1/100th of what he has accomplished.

“The housecat may mock the tiger,” said the master, “but doing so will not make his purr into a roar.” [1]

[1] http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/end-user.html

	▲	nurettin a day ago \| parent [-]
		Ah, someone who enjoys defending his tigers against cats. Well, enjoy your low hanging fruits, tiger. Someone "so knowledgeable" and totally not a poster boy making bold claims that don't come true at all will continue not making sense to me. But don't get me wrong, I know this is an old man shakes fist at cloud kind of situation. Who cares what doesn't make sense to me anyway? My academic circles don't, and they do fine. I continue to contribute what little I can. But my field is more SR than NN.

▲ sriram_malhar 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

    Frankly, this all sounds like hero worship and the language is very cringe.

"Frankly, I just want to be a contrarian"

	▲	nurettin 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		"Hell hath no fury like a conformist scorned"

▲ qwertytyyuu 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Come on there is space for theatrics on hacker news