| ▲ | hvb2 6 days ago |
| So why can a traditional bank not solve this? In Europe you can wire money across borders for free, you just need to know the account number. Arrives in seconds at 0 cost. I feel like a lot of the fintech in the US is purely a result of a lack of regulation. For the example of Argentina, the real reason that business is using crypto is because their currency is unreliable. It might be a good fit there but trading in dollars would've fixed that too. |
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| ▲ | abxyz 6 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| I’m as cynical about crypto as any sane person but I think you’re hand-waving away the challenges of international business. How can you transact in dollars if you’re a business in Argentina? As you say, if you’re operating in Europe, this is a solved problem, but lots of businesses are operating across borders that don’t have the same payment options. Banks could solve this problem but they haven’t and this is what non-banks have come up with. I’m sure if SEPA was global this wouldn’t be necessary, but it isn’t. |
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| ▲ | hvb2 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm trying to point out that most US people are unaware that days for selling a transaction should be outrageous, yet it's the norm. And a wire, which is as close to sepa as I think you can get, costs 10s of $ each time. Basically, the international business problem is real. The Argentina case is mostly lack of a domestic stable currency though. These are legit use cases, fast and cheap transactions aren't. | | |
| ▲ | mattlutze 6 days ago | parent [-] | | Fast and cheap transactions are legit use cases. If you actually offered those US businesses with instant, verifiable transfers that cost nearly nothing, do you actually think they wouldn't move to that? |
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| ▲ | mattlutze 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | SEPA also works easily because it's single currency for a single unified economic zone. If currency change was involved then you'd likely be back to routing through central banks or currency change banks and such. | | |
| ▲ | Y_Y 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > As of 2025, there were 41 members in SEPA,[2][3] consisting of the 27 member states of the European Union, the four member states of the European Free Trade Association (Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland), the United Kingdom, as well as five EU candidate countries.[4][5][3] Some microstates participate in the technical schemes: Andorra,[6] Monaco, San Marino, and Vatican City.[4] As of 2025, Albania, Moldova, Montenegro, North Macedonia and Serbia are the five countries negotiating to join the EU that are included in SEPA.[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area I don't know if I'd call that a "unified economic zone" without some qualifications. | | |
| ▲ | runarberg 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Few of SEPA members have autonomous regions which are them selves not members of SEPA, I do wonder if making transactions between the autonomous region and the rest of the country, as well as to a different SEPA member is any harder. For example I can’t imagine it would be difficult to make a transaction between Thorshavn in the Faroe Islands and Hirtshals in Denmark proper, or to Oslo or Reykjavík for that matter. But a transaction between North Nicosia to Nicosia in Northern Cyprus and Cyprus respectively may be a different matter. | |
| ▲ | mattlutze 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Here's a fun timeline to walk through how it developed and why it's been, while not trivial, implemented with a kind of structural uniformity to keep the problem space contained. https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/about-sepa/sepa-timel... |
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| ▲ | baby 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | It wouldn't surprise me if SEPA was running a BFT consensus protocol under the hood to ensure security |
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| ▲ | jama211 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Australia too has instant and fee free transfers, so American staples like venmo just simply don’t exist here. People just send money to and from each other’s banks directly instantly and for free. So why would we need another service? Crypto here would similarly make very little sense. |
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| ▲ | nikcub 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's not about the domestic use case - that is solved by regulation in stable economies. Try paying someone in Pakistan from Australia. Business is global now. | | |
| ▲ | jama211 5 days ago | parent [-] | | I seem to have no issue purchasing goods online from stores operated in other countries. | | |
| ▲ | wholisticguy 4 days ago | parent [-] | | You do so at the pleasure and convenience of duopoly of credit card payment processors (Visa and MasterCard). And occasionally, they will withdraw that service for arbitrary and capricious reasons https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44685011 Crypto stablecoins running on blockchain rails provide an alternative to that network. | | |
| ▲ | jama211 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I believe the duopoly is bad, but the solution to that is market regulation, not crypto. |
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| ▲ | jama211 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | As an aside, if banks in other countries also worked like this because we as a global society regulated them better then people in those countries could enjoy similar rewards. |
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| ▲ | Izikiel43 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > It might be a good fit there but trading in dollars would've fixed that too. You are underestimating how toxic the Argentinian government was. We did do that with capital controls, the problem is that it was illegal, and the Argentinian IRS is very active trying to tear you a new one. Argentina has long become a bimonetary economy, dealing with ARS for everyday transactions, but saving in USD and pricing assets in USD (real state for example). To give an example where this would have helped, my parents in Argentina needed to send money to my brother in Europe. The government had made that illegal with capital controls, so I had to transfer him money through wise from a 3rd country and when at some point later I visited they gave me the cash. People underestimate how annoying and distopic governments can be if given the chance. |
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| ▲ | afiori 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That is because the EU acts as a coordinating authority, if you wanted to transfer money from Greece to Iran it would be a different issue. I suspect that banks cannot solve this because it would be illegal for them to do so. If many banks could send and receive money from across the world money laundering would become way way easier (in this sense the lack of privacy in many blockchains can be seen as a strength) and it is how offshore fiscal paradises work |
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| ▲ | fsckboy 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >in Europe you can wire money across borders for free do you mean "electronic funds transfer"? because "wiring" is an old school thing that uses Telex machines and and gets processed by people and I would doubt it carries no fee. (It's probably been modernised so that people handle virtual slips of paper, but it very much carries the feel of an "order on a slip of paper" type of transaction and is far from instantaneous.) I'm genuinely asking, I only know about the US systems where electronic funds transfer is known as ACH which is an automated clearing house, and wiring is called wiring. From the US, I can wire to European banks. I can't ACH. |
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| ▲ | 9dev 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I don’t think more than a handful of Europeans have ever heard of wiring the way you describe. Everyone over here has a bank account with a debit card and is used to transferring money to someone using their international bank account number; PayPal is in use for convenience, but not really necessary actually. People have credit cards for travelling abroad or online purchases, but that’s about it. | | |
| ▲ | fsckboy 5 days ago | parent [-] | | not more than a large handful of Americans have heard of it either, till they become "established" so to speak. It's for moving large amounts of money, and for ordinary people that would only be like when you buy a house, you wire the money to escrow. Europe has the same wire system, it's international. |
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| ▲ | hvb2 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I used the term wire because it most closely resembles a sepa transaction. You put in the receiver's details and hit send |
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| ▲ | is_true 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I think the argentinian case was mentioned for marketing purposes. You can trade using the USD dollar which at the end of the day is probably what your client/provider is using anyway. |
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| ▲ | Izikiel43 6 days ago | parent [-] | | Since April, yes, before that you had very hard capital controls since 2019, and also during the 2011-2014 period.
For people there, it's not marketing, it's an actual solution to government interference. |
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