| I'm a little confused about exactly what is being claimed here - how do we know that Vinay is the one who made this "demand"? All the article says about this is: > When YouTube notified Howard of the demand request, it included an email address for Prasad, which is identical to the email address that is linked to Prasad’s now inactive podcast, called Plenary Session. What does "included an email address" mean exactly? The reason I ask is that, if he did actually issue such a demand, this strikes me as wildly out of character for him. I don't know Vinay super duper well, but I've been on several multi-hour calls with him, and I have always found him to be a very thoughtful and high-integrity scientist. It never occurred to me that he might have the hallmarks of a political operative, and certainly not a right-wing one. And he had thoughts about the nature of knowledge and the future of the internet that are consistent with what most of us here on HN observe. Moreover, the content that was removed in this case was not anything that he'd be ashamed of; it was all fairly reasonable observations, mostly about the collateral effects of lockdown policies and the lack of a scientific framework for measuring their impact. All of his more 'firebrand' content - especially his (IMO, warranted) criticism of Scott Gottleib and the underhanded influence of Pfizer at FDA, remain on the internet (much on his channels where, presumably if he was bothered by it, he'd remove himself). I'd really like to know for sure that he himself issued this demand. That will be a really disappointing thing to learn. Obviously whether it was him or just someone who put his email address on a takedown form, it's wrong for YouTube to capitulate to such a ridiculous demand. |
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| ▲ | timr 3 days ago | parent [-] | | > It's a political appointment. Could you try to be like, even 10% less knee-jerk partisan? It's an appointment in the FDA (which requires actual technical knowledge) and Prasad is a well-documented member of the political left, to the point where he was recently chased out of the FDA for being on the left. | | |
| ▲ | ceejayoz 3 days ago | parent [-] | | > It's an appointment in the FDA… That does not make it non-political. The FDA has both political appointees and civil service roles, just like other government agencies. https://www.opm.gov/frequently-asked-questions/political-app... > Prasad is a well-documented member of the political left lmao Being on Loomer's shitlist is not "documentation". | | |
| ▲ | timr 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > That does not make it non-political. The FDA has both political appointees and civil service roles, just like other government agencies. https://www.opm.gov/frequently-asked-questions/political-app... OK, so which one is this position? Do you actually know? (Google tells me that the position of CBER director is officially non-political, though since Peter Marks was forced to resign, it's now "more political than before".) > lmao Yeah, you're not being partisan at all. I tell you that Prasad is a liberal (an extremely well-documented fact), and your response is..."lmao". | | |
| ▲ | ceejayoz 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > OK, so which one is this position? Do you actually know? Yes, we do. His role is not a civil service one. > I tell you that Prasad is a liberal (an extremely well-documented fact), and your response is..."lmao". Go on, document it. | | |
| ▲ | timr 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > Yes, we do. His role is not a civil service one. Incorrect. I just looked it up. It's a civil service appointment. > Go on, document it. He's said many, many times on his podcast(s), twitter and elsewhere that he's on the left, and that he voted for Sanders. So sure, I could dig each one of those up for you, or you could actually believe it when people on the right attack him for being a "lefist". Like this, for example: "Vinay Prasad Is a Bernie Sanders Acolyte in MAHA Drag" https://www.wsj.com/opinion/vinay-prasad-is-a-bernie-sanders... | | |
| ▲ | ceejayoz 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > Incorrect. I just looked it up. It's a civil service appointment. I think you're mixing up "requires Senate confirmation" and the much broader "political appointee", but I'd welcome the cite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_appointments_in_the_... "According to the United States Office of Government Ethics, a political appointee is 'any employee who is appointed by the President, the Vice President, or agency head'." (That'll be Makary.) > "Vinay Prasad Is a Bernie Sanders Acolyte in MAHA Drag" A WSJ oped is not documentation. > that he voted for Sanders Yeah, that's not proof either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanders%E2%80%93Trump_voters | | |
| ▲ | timr 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I'm not going to dig through every hour of his podcast to find all the times that he said himself that he is on the left and voted for Sanders. If you're that motivated, you can easily go listen to him, and then you might actually know something. > I think you're mixing up "requires Senate confirmation" and the much broader "political appointee", but I'd welcome the cite. I'm not mixing it up. It's a civil role. Peter Marks was the prior head of CBER since circa 2012. He was a civil servant. Nothing about the position has changed since he left. He resigned, and Makary recruited Prasad. By your standards of "appointment", every job in my life has been a political appointment by my boss. | | |
| ▲ | ceejayoz 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > I'm not mixing it up. It's a civil role. You said you looked it up. Should be an easy cite. > Peter Marks was the prior head of CBER. He was a civil servant. Those aren't mutually exclusive statuses. Some State Department ambassadors are long-term civil servants; others are political appointees. https://www.newsweek.com/who-vinay-prasad-rfk-jr-taps-pharma... "Prasad's new role has traditionally been held by an FDA career scientist" > By your standards of "appointment", every job in my life has been a political appointment by my boss. If you were appointed by Federal agency heads, sure. They're the encyclopedia's standards, not mine. | |
| ▲ | mrkeen 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Peter Marks was the prior head of CBER since circa 2012. Peter Marks was dismissed by RFK over vaccines. > Nothing about the position has changed since he left. I can't dispute this, so what conclusion is left other than Prasad will keep his job to the extent that he agrees with RFK on vaccines. | | |
| ▲ | timr 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I actually agree with you (I mean, you're just stating facts). But the other commenter is trying to spin this simple fact as a "political appointment", when every job is "you serve at the pleasure of your boss". Only government work has had this strange notion of perma-employment, where nobody can fire you, lest it become "political". So you pile up corrupt morons like Peter Marks and Ashish Jha... Anyway, it seems to me that the subtext here is that nobody can serve in this administration or they get attacked for being on the wrong side by partisan hacks. I'm actually happy that someone as competent as Prasad made it to a position of power -- it's one of the few bright spots in government right now. He's someone who has made a lot of enemies by standing up to pharma corruption, and I don't know if any other administration would ever have given him the kind of authority needed to clean house. | | |
| ▲ | ceejayoz 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > But the other commenter is trying to spin this simple fact as a "political appointment", when every job is "you serve at the pleasure of your boss". Simple fact: That's false. Unionized employees. Montana's "Wrongful Discharge in Employment Act". Bosses whose "pleasure" includes firing the newly pregnant employee for that reason. Etc. > Only government work has had this strange notion of perma-employment Similarly incorrect. Tenure's a thing, even at private universities. For fairly similar reasons, even. > So you pile up corrupt morons like Peter Marks and Ashish Jha… Marks was fired (well, forced to resign); he had some civil service protection (having been hired as a non-political appointment first), but not for the role he was in. Jha was a political appointment, and thus not subject to civil service protections; his position was done away with entirely after the work was done. You are citing successful removals to claim people can't be removed, which is… a bit interesting. | | |
| ▲ | timr 2 days ago | parent [-] | | You have spent a lot of words arguing about anything other than the core point: the fact that Prasad was hired into Marks' old position does not suddenly make the position "political". Marks resigned, Prasad was hired. Same position. Arguing that he can be fired is...true, I suppose (in the same way that Marks was "fired"), but non-responsive. | | |
| ▲ | ceejayoz 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > the fact that Prasad was hired into Marks' old position does not suddenly make the position "political" Correct, but "non-responsive", as you say. > You have spent a lot of words arguing about anything other than the core point: the fact that Prasad was hired into Marks' old position does not suddenly make the position "political". You have spent a lot of words arguing with the definition of "political appointee". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_appointments_in_the_... Prasad and Marks are/were both political appointees because they were appointed to their roles by the President, Vice President, or a Federal agency head. In such a role, they lack certain protections (including around firing) a civil service role would possess. It's really quite simple. | | |
| ▲ | timr 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Look, I'm tired of arguing about this, but since you're basically just appealing to authority (a wikipedia article), you should know that the one line you're quoting is actually not supported by the document that it cites [1,2] Here's the exact definition: > The definition of “appointee” in the Executive Order covers “every full-time, non-career Presidential or Vice-Presidential appointee, non-career appointee in the Senior Executive Service (or other SES-type system), and appointee to a position that has been excepted from the competitive service by reason of being of a confidential or policymaking character (Schedule C and other positions excepted under comparable criteria) in an executive agency.” Executive Order,
sec. 2(b). However, “[i]t does not include any person appointed as a member of the Senior Foreign Service or solely as a uniformed service commissioned officer.” So basically, there's a lot of nuance there, and your wikipedia quote is wrong. Perhaps you should change it to be more accurate (EDIT: nevermind. Did it for you!) [1] https://www.oge.gov/Web/oge.nsf/Legal%20Docs/4EAB053F755BE59... [2] Which, I should note, is a definition made by an executive order. LOL. EDIT: OK, I have now followed this all the way to Wikipedia's stated source for political appointments ("The Plum Book", 2020 edition [3]), and I do not see this position anywhere in the book. Starts at page 79. I'm sure you'll find a way to argue about it, but it seems that you are truly, definitively wrong...but who knows, since it changes every four years anyway. [3] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-PLUMBOOK-2020/pdf/GP... | | |
| ▲ | ceejayoz 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Your quote, summarized, says essentially “there are even more political appointees than that”. It agrees with me entirely on these roles. | | |
| ▲ | timr 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I literally went to the source, and the job isn't in there. | | |
| ▲ | ceejayoz 2 days ago | parent [-] | | You went to the 2020 list and didn’t find the guy appointed in 2025? I’m shocked. | | |
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