Horoscopes are not a religious belief.

The majority of atheists globally believe in astrology (because of the large number of atheists in China, IIRC).

dragonwriter 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Horoscopes are not a religious belief.

Saying that religious predictions use the same style of vagueness that allows people to retrospectively reconstruct them to match facts as horoscopes is not a claim that horoscopes are a religious belief.

> The majority of atheists globally believe in astrology

Even assuming this is true, what relevance does it have to the discussion?

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graemep 3 days ago | parent [-]

> Saying that religious predictions

What religious predictions? Religions do not generally make many predictions.

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dragonwriter 3 days ago | parent [-]

> What religious predictions? Religions do not generally make many predictions.

Religions tend to not make a lot of predictions, but they do make some (there's kind of an inverse relation between size and durability of religion and the number and specificity of predictions, though.)

But, if they didn't make any, they wouldn't have a special word for it ("prophecy").

	▲	graemep 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Prophecy is not synonym for prediction. it is a "message from God" in the major theistic religions. The only prophecies that were predictions I can think of with regard to Christianity were Jewish prophecies of a messiah. The Jewish prophets were leaders, not soothsayers. > there's kind of an inverse relation between size and durability of religion and the number and specificity of predictions, though I would question that - things like the Oracle at Delphi lasted a long time. So did fortune telling (mostly non-religious) around the world. How long as astrology lasted?

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veidr 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

CITATION NEEDED — except not really, that's utter bollocks that doesn't warrant a counter.

But, you triggered me lol:

1.) The Chinese meaning of "atheist" may not mean what you think it means: a.) it means not following a major established religion, and b.) they have an Orwellian surveillance-state dictatorship government which very much opposes major established religions

2.) For many people, including in China, astrology is just something like buying a lottery ticket, or asking the Magic 8-Ball for advice — fun, but not something actually believed in[1].

3.) It's much more likely that 3% of atheists "believe in" astrology[2] — and the idea that a majority would is insane on its face

So yeah, nah.

[1]: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2025/05/21/3-in-10-amer...

[2]: https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2020/04/11/42552/

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graemep 3 days ago | parent [-]

You quote American numbers as a counter to a claim about global beliefs? You even cite the powresearch link to to make a claim about China!

Even in the US the group most likely to believe in astrology as the "nothing in particular" - non religious but not strongly identifying as atheist or agnostic.

Most Chinese people say they are "convinced atheists"[1] so I find your first claim unconvincing. Yes, they live in a dictatorship, but the dictatorship's promotion of atheism is what makes them atheist - they are brainwashed (in a casual, not formal, sense) into it.

Even when asked more specific questions about belief they are atheists. Its not just fear of government because they will admit to superstitious practices the state also disapproves of in the same surveys[2].

Claiming Chinese atheists are not really atheists is a no true Scotsman argument. They say they are atheists, their beliefs about religious things are atheist.

> and the idea that a majority would is insane on its face

It might to fit what you think atheists should believe, but the evidence points to it being true.

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20150430232945/http://www.wingia...

[2]https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/05/chinese-c...

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moefh 3 days ago | parent [-]

I don't see anything in your links that remotely supports your original claim that "The majority of atheists globally believe in astrology".

Even if you expand your claim to add fengshui, it's entirely plausible that only about 10% of the Chinese population are atheists who believe in fengshui. That would mean only 17% of Chinese atheists believe in fengshui.

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graemep 2 days ago | parent [-]

Over 60% of Chinese people say they are convinced atheists (i.e. as opposed to being just non-religious). Nearly half of them believe in feng shui.

At the very least its an indicator that atheist and superstition are a common combination.

	▲	moefh 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		> At the very least its an indicator that atheist and superstition are a common combination. The very least is even less than what I wrote: it's the smallest possible overlap between convinced atheists and fengshui believers: (47-(100-61)) = 8% of the population being both. You can call it common if you want, but again I don't see how you'd get from that to anywhere near "the majority of atheists globally believe in astrology".