| ▲ | jhbadger 4 days ago |
| >You can already see this with YouTube: AI-generated videos are a mild amusement, not a replacement for video creators, because made by AI is becoming a negative label in a world where the presence of AI video is widely known. But that's because, at present, AI generated video isn't very good. Consider the history of CGI. In the 1990s and early 2000s, it was common to complain about how the move away from practical sets in favor of CGI was making movies worse. And it was! You had backgrounds and monsters that looked like they escaped from a video game. But that complaint has pretty much died out these days as the tech got better (although Nolan's Oppenheimer did weirdly hype the fact that its simulated Trinity blast was done by practical effects). |
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| ▲ | morsecodist 4 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| I don't agree that it is because of the "quality" of the video. The issue with AI art is that it lacks intentional content. I think people like art because it is a sort of conversation between the creator and the viewer. It is interesting because it has a consistent perspective. It is possible AI art could one day be indistinguishable but for people to care about it I feel they would need to lie and say it was made by a particular person or create some sort of persona for the AI. But there are a lot of people who want to do the work of making art. People are not the limiting factor, in fact we have way more people who want to make art than there is a market for it. What I think is more likely is that AI becomes a tool in the same way CGI is a tool. |
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| ▲ | ninetyninenine 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | morsecodist 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I honestly can't tell if you're being facetious. Maybe I suck at writing and don't properly understand sarcasm but unfortunately I'm only human. | |
| ▲ | nprateem 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's obviously not AI written. |
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| ▲ | tbrownaw 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The issue with AI art is that it lacks intentional content. I think people like art because it is a sort of conversation between the creator and the viewer. Intent is in the eye of the beholder. | | |
| ▲ | nprateem 4 days ago | parent [-] | | The trouble with AI shit is it's all contaminated by association. I was looking on YT earlier for info on security cameras. It's easy to spot the AI crap: under 5 minutes and just stock video in the preview or photos. What value could there be in me wasting time to see if the creators bothered to add quality content if they can't be bothered to show themselves in front of the lens? What an individual brings is a unique brand. I'm watching their opinion which carries weight based on social signals and their catalogue etc. Generic AI will always lack that until it can convincingly be bundled into a persona... only then the cycle will repeat: search for other ways to separate the lazy, generic content from the meaningful original stuff. |
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| ▲ | keiferski 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| CGI is a good analogy because I think AI and creators will probably go in the same direction: You can make a compelling argument that CGI operators outcompeted practical effects operators. But CGI didn’t somehow replace the need for a filmmaker, scriptwriter, cinematographers, etc. entirely – it just changed the skillset. AI will probably be the same thing. It’s not going to replace the actual job of YouTuber in a meaningful sense; but it might redefine that job to include being proficient at AI tools that improve the process. |
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| ▲ | tomrod 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I think they are evolving differently. Some very old cgi holds up because they invested a lot of money to make it so. Then they tried to make it cheaper and people started complaining because the output was worse than all prior options. | | |
| ▲ | Melatonic 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Jurassic Park is a great example - they also had excellent compositing to hide any flaws (compositing never gets mentioned in casual CGI talk but is one of the most important steps) The dinosaurs were also animated by oldschool stop motion animators who were very, very good at their jobs. Another very underrated part of the VFX pipeline. Doesnt matter how nice your 3D modelling and texturing are if the above two are skimped on ! |
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| ▲ | djtango 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's a Nolan thing like how Dunkirk used no green screen. I think Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings embody the transition from old school camera tricks to CGI as they leaned very heavily into set and prop design and as a result have aged very gracefully as movies |
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| ▲ | silvestrov 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I think the first HP movie was more magical than the latter ones as they felt too "Marvel CGI" for me. Marvel movies have become tiresome for me, too much CGI that does not tell any interesting story. Old animated Disney movies are more rewatchable. | | |
| ▲ | djtango 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I like to see marvel as the state of the art/tech demo for CGI - this is what is achievable with near limitless budget I still find Infinity War and Endgame visually satisfying spectacles but I am a forgiving viewer for those movies | |
| ▲ | player1234 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | And they cost 300 million to make be cause of the CGI fest they are, hence need close to a billion in profits when considering marketing and the theater cut. So the cost of CGI and the enshittification of movies seems to be a good analogy to the usefuleness of LLM/AI. Not a flex. |
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| ▲ | yoz-y 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That said, the complaint is coming back. Namely because most new movies use an incredible amount of CGI and due to the time constraints the quality suffers. As such, CGI is once again becoming a negative label. I don’t know if there is an AI equivalent of this. Maybe the fact that as models seem to move away from a big generalist model at launch, towards a multitude of smaller expert models (but retaining the branding, aka GPT-4), the quality goes down. |
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| ▲ | player1234 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The equivalent is the massive cost of CGI and LLMs in comparison to the lackluster end result. | |
| ▲ | not_the_fda 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Now they just make the whole scene dark and you can't see anything. Saves money on CGI though. |
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| ▲ | __MatrixMan__ 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Do you get the feeling that AI generated content is lacking something that can be incrementally improved on? Seems to me that it's already quite good in any dimension that it knows how to improve on (e.g. photorealism) and completely devoid of the other things we'd want from it (e.g. meaning). |
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| ▲ | tomrod 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's missing random flaws. Often the noise has patternd as a result of the diffusion or generation process. | | |
| ▲ | arcane23 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, I was thinking about this. Humans vary depending on a lot of factors. Today they're happy, tomorrow they're a bit down. This makes for some variation which can be useful.
LLMs are made to be reliable/repeatable, as general experience. You know what you get. Humans are a bit more ... -ish, depending on ... things. |
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| ▲ | keiferski 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah if you look at many of the top content creators, their appeal often has very little to do with production value, and is deliberately low tech and informal. I guess AI tools can eventually become more human-like in terms of demeanor, mood, facial expressions, personality, etc. but this is a long long way from a photorealistic video. |
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| ▲ | Barrin92 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >But that's because, at present, AI generated video isn't very good. It isn't good, but that's not the reason. There's a paper about 10 years ago where people used some computer system to generate Bach-like music that even Bach experts couldn't reliably tell apart, but nobody listens to bot music. (or nobody except for engine programmers watches computer chess, despite superiority. Chess is thriving more now including commercially than it ever did) In any creative field what people are after is the interaction between the creator and the content, which is why compelling personalities thrive more, not less in a sea of commodified slop (be that by AI or just churned out manually). It's why we're in an age where twitch content creators or musicians are increasingly skilled at presenting themselves as authentic and personal. These people haven't suffered from the fact that mass production of media is cheap, they've benefited from it. |
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| ▲ | thefaux 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The wonder of Bach goes much deeper than just the aesthetic qualities of his music. His genius almost forces one to reckon with his historical context and wonder, how did he do it? Why did he do it? What made it all possible? Then there is the incredible influence that he had. It is easy to forget that music theory as we know it today was not formalized in his day. The computer programs that simulate the kind of music he made are based on that theory that he understood intuitively and wove into his music and was later revealed through diligent study. Everyone who studies Bach learns something profound and can feel both a kinship for his humanity and also an alienation from his seemingly impossible genius. He is one of the most mysterious figures in human history and one could easily spend their entire life primarily studying just his music (and that of his descendants). From that perspective, computer generated music in his style is just a leaf on the tree, but Bach himself is the seed. > These people haven't suffered from the fact that mass production of media is cheap, they've benefited from it. Maybe? This really depends on your value system. Every moment that you are focused on how you look on camera and trying to optimize an extractive algorithm is a moment you aren't focused on creating the best music that you can in that moment. If the goal is maximizing profit to ensure survival, perhaps they are thriving. Put another way, if these people were free to create music in any context, would they choose content creation on social media? I know I wouldn't, but I also am sympathetic to the economic imperatives. | |
| ▲ | oinfoalgo 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I am a Bach fiend and the problem is BWV 1 to 1080. Why would I listen to algorithmic Bach compositions when there are so many of Bach's own work I have never listened to? Even if you did get bored of all JS music, Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach has over 1000 works himself. There are also many genius baroque music composers outside the Bach family. This is true of any composer really. Any classical composer that the average person has heard of has an immense catalog of works compared to modern recording artists. I would say I have probably not even listened to half the works of all my favorite composers because it is such a huge amount of music. There is no need for some kind of classical music style LORA. | | |
| ▲ | vidarh a day ago | parent [-] | | I don't question Bach's genius, but most baroque music doesn't interest me. Some of Bach's music I still enjoy enough that I could see myself listen to AI generated tracks made to generate music specifically similar to those pieces of Bach (and others) that I like. Though not enough that I'd seek out that in particular, and so I think the combination of what you say, with the general low-level of interest of those who would if it just happened to appear in my playlist still explains why it's not really a thing. There are many artists, across the spectrum, like that for me, from geniuses that are just outside my own taste, to mediocre "one hit wonders" where I realise why they only had one hit when I listened to the rest of their catalogue but reallly would like more like that one hit (or handful) And even when you like a broader selection of a composers music, there are time you might want "more of the same" of a specific piece. E.g. I quite like Beethoven, but I love the Moonlight Sonata, not just for what it is in itself, but the general systematic exploration of repetitive and slowly shifting of it. There are other pieces by wildly different composers that invokes similar systematic exploration of patterns [1], but I'd also love to be able to hear more new "improvisations" over specific instances tuned very specifically to the aspects I like. [1] On the extreme other "end" of these types of shiting repetitive patterns, I love Rob Hubbards Delta in-game theme of 11+ minutes of patterns repeated and iterated over as an illustration of the wide range that I like for much the same reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOpIbm_XX-k You can also find a slightly less shrill modern remake, though it also adds a bit too much for my taste:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WE6av3g_8I&list=RD-WE6av3g_... Or a somewhat more faithful arrangement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHpYBGW41gw&list=RDAHpYBGW41... |
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| ▲ | vidarh 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's interesting, because after ElevenLabs launched their music generation I decided I really quite want to spent some time to have it generate background tracks for me to have on while working. I don't know the name of any of the artists whose music I listened to over the last week because it does not matter to me. What mattered was that it was unobtrusive and fit my general mood. So I have a handful of starting points that I stream music "similar to". I never care about looking up the tracks, or albums, or artists. I'm sure lots of people think like you, but I also think you underestimate how many contexts there are where people just don't care. | |
| ▲ | pfdietz 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Authenticity and sincerity are very important. When you can fake those, you've got it made. |
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| ▲ | danielbln 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Ironically, while the non-CGI SFX in e.g. Interstellar looked amazing, that sad fizzle of a practical explosion in Oppenheimer did not do the real thing justice and would've been better served by proper CGI VFX. |
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| ▲ | danny_codes 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Totally agree. Nolan is a perfectionists though, so I don’t think he could let himself go for broke on the actual boom boom |
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