Yes, my warning is that once you're interacting with a cop in the USA, you're in a hopeless situation, because this is sound advice and the one least likely to lead to your death, and also most likely to, after you go to jail, keep you out of jail on a bogus conviction. Plead the 5th and wait.

The nicest cop is indistinguishable from the one leveraging his training to seem nice to get any info out of you he can use for probable cause. He gets you to joke around, talks about how he used to smoke weed in college, didn't you as well? You don't answer, he takes that as tacit admission (unless you verbally plead the 5th, silence is admissable), now he has predisposition to drug use, probable cause to search, oops he's found "shake" in your car (fuzzy leftover bits of weed, I've seen cops rip up a bit of carpet and call it shake first hand), now you're spending the weekend in jail because it's Friday and he'll fail to finish your paperwork before 5.

Your suggestion to try to fix it from the inside comes from a good place but a naive one, you say you aren't American so I'll share with you what happens to "good" American cops.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft

Adrian blew the whistle on NYPD abuse again black Brooklynites and in return they raided his home, kidnapped him, and institutionalized him.

In the best case, they get fired:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/west-virginia-cop-fired...

Or look up Sean Gannon or Joe Crystal. Joe was fired for reporting an incident of police brutality. Sean for reporting when his partner raped someone.

I thought about filling this post with cases. I could probably find 50 more, I've a large collection over the years.

The point is, the system selects for bad cops. To us, a good cop reports abuse and doesn't do it. That good cop makes less arrests. A bad cop is abusive and lies. That's the opposite of what the system selects for. A good cop follows orders and meets their arrest quotas, a bad cop blows the whistle and empathizes with the people on their beat.

Because of this fact you are safe to assume every cop you encounter is a bad one.

We didn't arrive at abolition out of nowhere. The policing in America is completely rotten from top to bottom. It works in some other countries that have much better policies and regulations. We arrived at abolition because the only cops left are the ones that would wiggle their way around such regulations. It needs to be completely cleaned out in the USA.

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1718627440 2 days ago | parent [-]

It seams we have a bit of different images in mind, what it means to treat someone nicely and maybe have a pleasant conversation.

Especially when you know how dangerous they can be, you shouldn't treat them as brutal animals. When you give them the opportunity to follow orders and still be seen as loyal to the people and the constitution, why shouldn't they take that opportunity?

Of-course you wouldn't say anything compromising, that would be really dumb. But why would you talk to a policeman about anything personal? You can have a conversation about politics, the economy global/nation/local, tax-policy, etc. . You can talk about their uniform, their new car, (because you are in HN) their encounters with software, the recent trend in UI. You can talk about the road quality, the new highway, where he thinks should be a new highway, what he thinks about public infrastructure, public transport (when that exists), the new park in town, the littering of the park in town. You can rant about the idiots going over the speed limit, the idiots parking everywhere, those modifying their cars, about issues with water, electricity, garbage disposal, regulatory overreach, those idiots in the EU, the idiots in near and far East, the idiots in Africa.

When a policeman jokes about talking drugs, I would expect you to deflect and tell him that taking drugs is forbidden, or how you held a lecture about the effects of drugs in school, how you always avoided the regions were it smells so bad. Nothing of that must be true.

I'm sure you can show me hundreds of cases, when there are millions of policeman it still wouldn't show that a majority of policeman is corrupt and commits crimes.

> Sean for reporting when his partner raped someone.

I can't really wrap my mind about that, because in my experience a superior that thinks a rape here and there is a good thing, still will kick subordinates out, to save his own reputation.

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komali2 19 hours ago | parent [-]

> You can have a conversation about politics

You are lucky, you must live in a nice country with normal laws and normal cops. I can't imagine any other reason why you'd just offer this up... Even an American with a thin blue line flag on their house would warn against talking politics with a cop. Check out the videos of the statsi troops going door to door in DC, fawning to locals about how they're there on trump's orders to "keep them safe." Armed to the teeth. You think it's a good idea to try to have a polite political conversation with men like that? You are blessed! For your own safety, never come to America, stay in peace and comfort elsewhere, I genuinely fear how your kind hearted openness will land you into awful trouble in the USA.

If you do come, enjoy a day sitting in a courtroom. Watch how the simplest, most meaningless conversation with a cop is read out by the court in a toneless transcript without any context and how a judge will grant probable cause on it, or consider it in sentencing to their detriment.

Bon homanie about the slow construction of a local freeway? In court that's lack of attachment and local loyalty, disaffected personality, antisocial tendencies.

Complaints about the EU? General disrespect of authority, likelihood to stir up trouble, lack of respect for law and order.

I guess it's time to trudge out the classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

Anything you say will be used against you.

> I'm sure you can show me hundreds of cases, when there are millions of policeman it still wouldn't show that a majority of policeman is corrupt and commits crimes.

The most likely outcome of an encounter with a bear is it runs away. Sometimes though, it's lost its discomfort around humans, is rabid, or just hungry enough to give it a shot. You should treat every bear like that bear. So too for the police. If the police want to be liked and treated with respect, they can become firemen instead. There's no song called "fuck the fire department."

> I can't really wrap my mind about that, because in my experience a superior that thinks a rape here and there is a good thing, still will kick subordinates out, to save his own reputation.

Untold such cases. It doesn't have to be logical to you, police departments in the USA reject candidates that are too smart.

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1718627440 9 hours ago | parent [-]

If you think your policeman is incapable of accepting different political positions, the "conversation" can mean you listening and asking questions to highlight the position of the policeman.

In my country joking about incapability of some public organization is a common topic of jokes it doesn't reveals anything about you, you are just citing "public opinion" as being broadcasted by the state media. You can choose your equivalent in your country.

I thought it is republican accepted stance to rant about the libs not being able to do anything for the public? That's what I think about ranting about the state of the highway.

I thought some like to rant about the "trade restrictions" of the EU? That's what I had in mind.

Will that kind of thing bring you into trouble?

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> statsi [sic!] troops

That's a good reference, because that's actually what I have in mind. It's not just my personal believe, it is about a lesson from a historic successful revolution.

The troops of the StaSi (ministry for state security) and the NVA (national peoples army) were also convinced that the demonstrators are all rapist, that do horrible things, that will riot and deserve to be shot. They were well prepared to repeat what happened in China just some weeks earlier. The marksmen were all well positioned, the police made violent noise and gestures. Everything was prepared for the next massacre. Do you know what prevented that? The demonstrators being peaceful, singing and praying. It was quite important that nobody shouts, nobody lets themself in anger kick against even a garbage bin.

Like you wrote the police has infinite resources compared to you. They are quite well prepared to you rioting. You know what they aren't prepared for? You treating them like a decent human.

That's why treating them as the brutal animals they often reveal themself as, won't actually help you. They expect you to, and this strengthens their opinions about you. You know what actually might help? Treating them like gentlemen.

> It doesn't have to be logical to you

It isn't about being smart, it's about the power of public opinion. When you say "it has been like this", you are actually weakening the public opinion. That's why that doesn't cause what you want it to.

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> General disrespect of authority

This shouldn't have any effect on a judgement. Can you seriously be convicted for such nebulous crimes in the USA?

	▲	komali2 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> The demonstrators being peaceful, singing and praying. I never advocated against peaceful protest. You are describing the protest ideology I subscribe to, as described in the new version of The Anarchist Cookbook by the founders of Food Not Bombs: https://www.foodnotbombs.net/anarchist_cookbook.html However: https://tminstituteldf.org/police-and-protests-the-inequity-... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/20/nypd... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_violence_incide... https://www.amnestyusa.org/aiusa-documents-police-violence-a... Police in the USA beat peaceful protestors. Here's a picture of them pepper spraying students that are sitting down: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper_spray_incident... "Treating police like they're human beings" gets you beat in the USA. I am an advocate for peaceful protest, I'm just warning people - you will probably get shot with tear gas or bean bags or plastic bullets if you participate, and you might lose an eye or die as a result. I won't lie to people about this reality. Americans should still resist this rising fascism, but they should go with both eyes open (behind safety goggles). > This shouldn't have any effect on a judgement. Can you seriously be convicted for such nebulous crimes in the USA? Yes, you can be arrested and convicted of "resisting arrest," this happens to people who lawfully film police all the time. They are given an unlawful order, question it on camera, are arrested, and then because the cops have no crime to accuse them of, accuse them of "resisting arrest," and the judge agrees during probable cause determination. It's easier to get the probable cause determination if you say anything about your political opinions, which the type of people who film cops often can't help themselves from doing. And yes, that includes "tendency to disrespect authority." I've personally witnessed this happen to protest observers, though I'm too tired to dig through court docs and find examples. I understand that you don't want America to be this way, or are in disbelief perhaps that it's that bad, but that is my whole point for sharing these stories - you're not the only one surprised that it's this bad! It's this bad. Don't come to America and if you do, don't talk to cops!!!!