This reminds me of a documentary I watched some time ago, I wish I could remember its name. This is what I remember about it:

The entire premise was following 2 people, one guy barely graduated community college, the other was incredibly intelligent. Went to an elite university, got a masters really young, and I believe was a member of Mensa.

The difference was in other areas. The first guy had a lot of persistence and didn’t stop when things got hard. Ended up becoming a very successful person, married with kids, had their own business.

By contrast the other guy despite being legitimately one of the smartest people in the world, simply withered into obscurity, had trouble maintaining gainful employment, relationships etc. A very stark contrast to the first person.

I realize the point of a documentary is to highlight extremes but I think it does say something about the relative value of intelligence as it correlates to successful outcomes

Suuure, but in my experience you get the meathead who makes a sports analogy every time something needs to be done.

Had to listen to someone talking about "humping it across the line" this week.

It will get you into Mensa.

But a massive number of the bay area "weirdos" seem to come from elite schools; or is my frame of reference not representative?

I think it's interesting how it's universally acceptable to hate on WASPs. Even, perhaps especially, among people who say they are opposed to bigotry.

> Ok, screw that and screw the Ivy League and the WASPs with it.

I understand the sentiment and sometimes share it. But I’m also sad to recognize that while elite asians like me can excel within the systems created by WASPs, we probably wouldn’t have created such systems ourselves.

What other group in history has created a system so fair that they were replaced-without being conquered—within the very institutions they themselves created? My dad was born in a village in Bangladesh and my brother went to Yale and is an executive at J.P. Morgan (two of the WASP-iest institutions in America). WASPs are a minority in these institutions now. This sort of thing basically only happens in Anglo countries.

Good reading: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/05/opinion/george-bush-wasps...

E.g. https://groveatlantic.com/book/flight-of-the-wasp/

This is not the perception I heard. People from SE Asia are welcome to comment on this (and they would provide a better perspective than I can) but I know several Cali people of Flipino or Vietnamese descent whose parents are not wealthy surgeons, and they also favor the holistic approach. It also becomes a problem of numbers. Hispanic and Asian kids are the fastest growing denominations in the US. It is very likely that many of them are recent immigrants and are not wealthy. Of course, I am not saying that having a sad story in and of itself is a hall pass. All I am saying is many comments here state that focusing SOLELY on grades and tests is fair, despite the fact that is not true. I went to a Top 5 college. I was not rich. I grew up with a mom that saved ice cream buckets to reuse them. I saw many rich kids' siblings take entire summers off to study and plan their applications. Whereas kids where I grew up in Detroit held summer jobs at country clubs, ice cream shops, and mall stores to help with bills. How are standardized tests fair with this context in mind? I am getting heavily down voted. I will say this. I was a white kid, whose parents were not wealthy. I was a refugee. And I am in favor of the holistic approach. I think it speaks volumes on here when rich white guys who are typically progressives line up with Trump policies on this matter (the other big one being Israel). I think this is where you take a hard look in the mirror, and question whether what you believe is right. I am not arguing further on this topic. I am a living experience of it. Reducing entire applicants to those metrics that are believed on here to be objective is reductionist, and I promise you, the most accomplished engineers and founders will not come from that pool of applicants you worship.

I grew up there. Rarely saw any asian kids, although it is changing these days. The Jews were in the affluent neighborhoods (like Grosse Pointe), they wished to be white and avoided Detroit at all costs. But nice try. I am white. Detroit areas I grew up in were mostly black. The few whites there were not rich (we were not rich). But again. I don't expect someone defending legacy systems to understand this. What part of Detroit are you from? Or are you just an apologists for your rich masters who seek to buy their way out of a holistic review, so their kids can attend top schools and America can become segregated again, except this time, on the basis of income and equality? I am not a Russian bot. Are you an Israeli bot that is charged with covering a genocide somewhere? Maybe that's why you want to undermine fairness in the US. Aren't our taxes enough little bot bud?

Jewish quotas were removed decades ago. In fact, today, many donors and beneficiaries of the legacy system are Jewish. Today, the disenfranchised are not Jews. In fact, Jews are among the richest ethnic group in the US (look at their median household income). There is a reason many deans got fired from Ivy leagues when they attempted to protect free speech. It is because Ackman and most donors are Jewish, and their threats could make a dean bark on command. I imagine you are still living in the 60s. Most of the disenfranchised in the US today are blacks, Hispanic, SE Asians, and refugees. Half of the billionaire class in these United States today are Jews... So your argument about quotas is ridiculous. Europeans were not allowed education under the French monarchy. We can go back further in fact. Or look at different settings (Ghaza children being denied food and education?). Ridiculous reasoning on your part.

Maybe I am not. But then again, maybe you are just academically inclined. I was responding to the ethnic argument the OP posted. Just becuase you tested well does not make you intelligent buddy. Any user here is welcome to compare you and I's accomplishments. I am willing to share my Linkedin with a 3rd party, you do the same. And theyy come up with a verdict. Here is a tip btw. I shared my opinion, you shared yours. Insulting my intelligence makes it no wonder you lived in tents. It is disrespectful. I guess life has yet to kick vulgarity and lack of class out of the tent boy, did it?