| ▲ | beezle 4 days ago |
| Americans confuse need with 'nice to have' which leads to the "I don't have money for food/rent/hc" problem. You do not need cable tv or home internet. You do not need an iPhone or top end Samsung. There are many mid-range Android phones much cheaper that can add a MVNO phone plan for around $20/mo that has more than enough data for necessary internet. Key word: necessary. OTA HDTV is available to many millions at the cost of an antenna (in window/attic/roof). Free books at the library. People give away old dvds and players for free. There is a thing called 'the outside'. Look at the cars many of the people who complain about being squeezed are driving. Pickups for the sake of driving one. Lower/mid end BMW/Lexus/Mercedes. Giant SUVs when a smaller one will more than do. There are actually still relatively low priced vehicles available but they are plain jane and looked down upon. I mention those things as I was head of an HOA for about 10 years and we regularly had owners who were in arrears or in and out of arrears. They would come before the board asking for waivers of late fees, interest and even the basic common charge. Yet they were aghast when the board suggested they drop their cable TV or swapped their expensive car lease for a beater. And heaven forbid you suggest they stop going to Starbucks as they sit in front of you asking forgiveness with a large latte in hand. |
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| ▲ | poulsbohemian 4 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| >You do not need cable tv or home internet. I get your point and I generally agree with everything you've written, but I'm a bit at a loss on the home internet thing... our society is entirely tied to our connectivity at this point, so are you simply recommending people use their internet-connected mobile devices and forego another home provider? With you on the cable thing - even the streaming providers that were supposed to save us have become prohibitively expensive at this point. |
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| ▲ | beezle 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Home internet is a luxury if you already have a data plan on your phone to accomplish the necessities - that is for access to government and corporate web sites and educational (school related) needs. Social media, in its basic forms are text and photos which also should fit in most included MVNO data plans such as this one from US Mobile which is $22.50/mo or $228/yr (19/mo) Unlimited High-Speed Data
Unlimited Talk & Text
20 GB Hotspot Data FYI - I live in a fairly rural area and have coverage. The standard home internet plan here runs about $90/mo after all taxes and tithes are paid. |
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| ▲ | _DeadFred_ 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Lazy Americans conflate anecdotes with reality. Make sure to hit the tropes though. The poor person with a Starbucks cup. The 'leased BMW bros are financial idiots'. The iPhone you have no idea where the person got (my son get's them as a christmas gift from his auntie). The cable bill (who under 50 has cable TV? What year is this post from?). At best old boy discovered that human beings make inconsistent financial decisions when under stress because someone once held a latte cup, and thinks therefor people aren't struggling financially. This is way too low effort/uninformative/nothing said to be the top comment. But it paints the correct narrative so those who don't want to see what's actually happening in this country probably love it. |
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| ▲ | beezle 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I hope you realize that the people that are feeling "stressed" are not just the ones making minimum wage but also those making considerably more yet, somehow not managing to make ends meet. | |
| ▲ | 0cf8612b2e1e 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | No you see, the poors are bad people and deserve to be poor. OP identified say $2000 in annual luxuries. If they lived a completely ascetic lifestyle free of wants, that would put them 0.4% closer to buying that $500k house on their $40k annual salary. | | |
| ▲ | beezle 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Even if it is just 2K (I think closer to 3), that is 5% of their $40K that could go towards food, healthcare and rent (or mortgage). | | |
| ▲ | 0cf8612b2e1e 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | So implicit in this is that the poor should have no luxuries at all. Water + a crust of bread. When not working for their betters, can sit in the darkness inside their hovels so as to not be seen. The median USA income is $40k. Most (not all) people are fully capable of living within their means. They can balance housing+food+medical and even some non essential luxuries. However, they have little slack. A shock to the system (loss of job, car failure, medical problem, or 20% increase in consumer goods within a few months) can force them to make tough choices. Which is where we are now. Basics have gone up, so whatever slack that might have existed has been cut short and people are stressed about how to adapt. “Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery” | |
| ▲ | _DeadFred_ 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I hope people advocating this realize that the lower 50% of Americans are waking up to the fact that their quality of life based on America's PPP is actually the same as third world nations, and the upper levels still want them to 'cut back more'. How long do you think people will go for that? |
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| ▲ | pessimizer 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > You do not need cable tv or home internet. This is a deeply stupid comment. Right now, the way marginal people get any work is from from the internet, and people interviewing for even awful jobs expect you to get on zoom calls with them. Every single step you expect people who can't afford to feed themselves makes them that much more unemployable. You don't need new shoes, you don't need a haircut. Hell, you don't even have to wash your clothes that often, I'm sure no one will notice, and washing your clothes costs enough to feed you for three days. > head of an HOA You sound like it. |
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| ▲ | beezle 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Is there a reason they can't use the internet that is available from their phone data plan? | | |
| ▲ | andrekandre 4 days ago | parent [-] | | try downloading an os update over your 5g connection, or maybe watching some instructional videos on youtube, now your out of gb and have an offer for purchasing 1gb additional data for 10 bucks a pop better to have an unlimited home internet |
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| ▲ | rconti 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'd drop the HOA first, I sure as _hell_ don't need one of those. |
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| ▲ | gruez 4 days ago | parent [-] | | HOAs come with the house. You can't just cancel them like you can cancel your netflix subscription. | | |
| ▲ | ethbr1 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Depends on the jurisdiction and state / local laws. HOA enforceability can vary from "that's cute" to lien on a house. Personally, I think the only thing worse than bad neighbors is any neighbors pretending they're lawyers. | |
| ▲ | Henchman21 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | No, but you can get elected to the HOA and move to dissolve it. Of course this isn't always advisable, some HOAs aren't awful, and some actually provide necessary services to homeowners. | | |
| ▲ | throwmeaway222 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I am with you there - the only HOA fees that absolutely need to exist is to service an elevator if it's a required part of your building. Other than that many HOAs exist to fund the lawsuit against the developer for 20 years. <- this part was just a joke | | |
| ▲ | lurking_swe 3 days ago | parent [-] | | so who is in charge for organizing repairs/replacement of common area things? Fences, parking lots, elevators, roof, pool, dog park, interior carpets, re-painting walls, etc? I guess i’m thinking of a condo HOA. Maybe some of that is less relevant in a neighborhood with single family homes? I do agree some HOAs are awful. But many actually help keep a place from looking shitty and from collapsing like the condo tower in florida a few years ago. |
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| ▲ | beezle 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | That is not always an easy thing to do and every HOA will vary. In general it will usually require a very high number (like 80%) of owners to agree, there are often multi-year waiting periods and sometimes poison pills which offer common areas to the local municipality on dissolution. |
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| ▲ | aidenn0 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The people I know who can't afford food or housing don't lease their cars (nor have they ever bought a car that was less than 5 years old) nor own a house, so I think we are considering a very different class of people. |
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| ▲ | standardUser 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > I was head of an HOA for about 10 years This fully explains the rest of your screed against the working class. |
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| ▲ | beezle 4 days ago | parent [-] | | When I started as head of the HOA, I was out of work and not exactly cup runeth over with money myself as it was 2009 so please, take your snark elsewhere. | | |
| ▲ | standardUser 4 days ago | parent [-] | | The point being that you are a stickler for rules and, like most sticklers, lack the capacity to understand the life situations of people unlike you. Hence the tone-deaf, factless, compassionless screed. |
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| ▲ | BobaFloutist 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I disagree with home Internet, I think that's pretty important these days. The rest I largely agree with. |
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| ▲ | Exoristos 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I have been poor and made all the sacrifices you suggest (heck, even gave up a car for public transportation), and, looking back, it made very little difference. Housing and food are just too expensive and dwarf other concerns. |
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| ▲ | ge96 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's crazy how cheap a decent phone can be, I'm talking a $160 Motorolla phone with 8GB of RAM |
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| ▲ | craftkiller 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I waited until they were phasing out the pixel 6a, so there were loads of great sales to clear out the old inventory. I managed to get a pixel 6a new for $94 total. No trade-in, no contract obligations, just $94 total. This phone kicks ass. Unless you're running games on your phone, there is nothing of value in newer/more expensive phones. We've long past the point where the cheap phones are powerful enough to have a completely smooth experience. My tech illiterate parents spend $1k on phones with fragile plastic screens. They don't do anything more demanding than watching youtube or checking their email. They claim "I love that it folds so it protects the screen" and yet the screen breaks in a year. It's such an irrational waste. | | |
| ▲ | ge96 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I did watch the most recent JerryRigEverything samsung fold phone test and man it is so thinnnn but nah, $2K for a phone is too much for me, maybe I'm just poor but yeah. I had a $2K used Sony Alpha camera and I felt scared using it, poor mindset too but insurance. |
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| ▲ | colingauvin 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is so out of touch it is almost comical. |
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| ▲ | M4R5H4LL 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is anecdotal but here is the truth: I have a home that I bought around 20 years ago in Cali, and the HOA tripled during that time and is now rapidly approaching $700/mo. And that's with less benefits since we lost the earthquake insurance. And not to mention the special assessments that started showing up in 2025. You could make all sort of assumptions, but there is nothing special about the community. |
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| ▲ | lesuorac 4 days ago | parent [-] | | > And not to mention the special assessments that started showing up in 2025. You could make all sort of assumptions, but there is nothing special about the community. It's pretty sad that both parts of the statements are true. Special Assessments occur when HOAs aren't capitalized correctly to cover the costs of largely maintenance and this issue is very wide-spread that being a part of an HOA that keeps issuing them isn't 'special'. Although the alternative is basically your HOA fees would go up but whatever the special assessment is (divided by duration between them) which probably makes it harder to sell the house since you have to claim higher HOA fees compared to a correct capitalized one. | | |
| ▲ | beezle 4 days ago | parent [-] | | So many, many HOAs and condo assocs. are poorly managed and have no capital plans (I even had a condo once where the agreement prohibited a capital fund!). Two points - first to yours on it being more difficult to sell. In fact, it can be the opposite. To get a mortgage these days it often requires the hoa/condo to have at least 10% of the annual budget in reserves. While often not the case, buyers should also be comparing the relative reserve states too and realize low reserves means specials The second point is that failure to reserve the majority of the cost of expected capital needs can result in a situation of liens and foreclosures (to get a paying owner in) and the HOA going cup in hand to a bank who may or may not loan the shortfall at a terrible interest rate. Or the project is put on hold and the cost may rise because of inflation or further deterioration of whatever was being renovated. When homeowners gripe about the dues and 'look how much is in reserves' I always ask: so when the roof needs to be replaced, you'll be good to cut a $5 or 10K check within 30 days? No? That is why the HOA reserves the vast majority of the cost. |
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| ▲ | boogieknite 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| this is something i strongly desire for people close to me to learn i dont think it sticks if i preach at them but think it would if i somehow engineered a way for them to "find out for themselves" are there approachable resources (not Dave Ramsey, please) to make this stick? |
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| ▲ | ndileas 4 days ago | parent [-] | | I think this is something that's very difficult to learn. It's a set of attitudes more than anything, and it's very countercultural (and not in a cool way). Mr money mustache isn't my favorite for various reasons, but he's pretty good at evangelizing the diy/fire sprit. Just take it with a grain of salt. |
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| ▲ | thrance 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It wouldn't be America if people didn't blame the poor for everything. Surely, the housing crisis is just stupid poor people drinking too many lattes, there is certainly no greater issue there, nope. |
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| ▲ | andrekandre 4 days ago | parent [-] | | > It wouldn't be America if people didn't blame the poor for everything.
to be fair, this has now evolved towards blaming the immigrants for everything... |
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| ▲ | 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
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