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jwr 6 days ago

The US does not have an exit tax for businesses, but has an absolutely horrible tax system in which expats are treated badly.

The reporting requirements for expats are insane: all bank/brokerage/whatever accounts with max levels during the year, FATCA and FBAR forms, and the cherry on top: Form 8858 ("Foreign Disregarded Entities", whatever that is) which is needed for your self-employment and for each of your rental properties. If you think this is easy, look it up — https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-8858

It's pretty much impossible to file your taxes yourself, you will never get it right. You have to pay specialized accountants, some of which will charge you >$1500 to prepare a yearly return with self-employment and rental.

Then come the actual taxes to pay, which are the least of all problems.

Expats are treated this way because they have no lobbying power.

hiAndrewQuinn 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

I can confirm this from experience. The instant your situation becomes more complicated than "I work one full time job and have no investments to my name whatsoever" you are in for a brutal time without an accountant by your side.

On the other hand, if you do have an accountant by your side, you potentially expose yourself to some of the most powerful labor arbitrage on the planet as a tech worker. Making $100k remotely from the US might sound like a bad deal until you live in a country where the average wage is $20,000. Like all things US tax wise, you are disproportionately rewarded for being clever and reading a lot.

ivankra 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

US totally does: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/expa... - long-term (8y+) green card holders may need to pay up.

One big difference is that the clock only start ticking after you get green card, whereas with Germany any residence year counts. Oh, and citizens of course aren't affected - since US continues to tax them wherever, but Germany like almost all other countries practices residence-based taxation.

graemep 6 days ago | parent [-]

It is very close to being all other countries. AFAIK the only other country that taxes non resident citizens is Eritrea - and the US has said its unfair they do it!

CalRobert 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Not to mention pfic rules making simple index investing impossible.

jwr 5 days ago | parent [-]

Does that affect individuals investing in ETFs through a brokerage account? I thought you only needed to provide information on the total value of each brokerage account?

CalRobert 5 days ago | parent [-]

Yes it does, basically all foreign etf’s are PFICs.

jwr 5 days ago | parent [-]

Oh this is even more terrible than I thought :-/

This means lots of additional reporting work plus 49€ per ETF yearly for tax preparers.

US really hates expats.

CalRobert 5 days ago | parent [-]

It's not just the filing, the tax burden is heavy and complicated. You need to opt for one of three regimes, etc.

https://accountinginsights.org/how-does-pfic-taxation-work-f...

I live in Europe and contemplated writing a tool to analyze ETF holdings and buy the stocks individually with the IBKR API, but it's an expensive and error-prone approach.

jwr 5 days ago | parent [-]

There is also an amusing (?) catch-22: you could theoretically sign up with a US-based broker and buy through them, which would make you exempt from these requirements. But most US-based brokers and banks will not want you as a customer if you don't have a US address. And those that do (Charles Schwab International) will not sell you ETFs, because… you are "based" in the EU, which has information requirements for selling financial instruments, and US ETFs cannot be sold to consumers in the EU.

I can't believe how badly the US screws their expats, and nothing is done about this, it only gets worse over the years.

CalRobert 5 days ago | parent [-]

The shocked pikachu face at increases in people renouncing (despite them charging you $2300 for it) is really something.