Calling Norvig's insights garbage says a lot about you. How did you ever come with that strawman?

> If you want, put in four years at a college (or more at a graduate school). This will give you access to some jobs that require credentials, and it will give you a deeper understanding of the field, but if you don't enjoy school, you can (with some dedication) get similar experience on your own or on the job. In any case, book learning alone won't be enough

Where exactly does Norvig advocate not to have a career earlier?

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coolThingsFirst 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

You pointed exactly at the garbage.

A MAANG company refused to give me an interview because ‘this position is for people with bsc degrees’ when i had an associate’s. Degree is mandatory unless its Stanford at which point you can enjoy VC money hacking on the next AI slop generator. Don't believe me, take a look at [1], minimum qualification is a BsC degree for a Google SWE job.

He is implying rushing is bad, it’s not. Tech industry is so enamored with young people that learning Next.js and making a dog app is deemed superior than really getting into the nitty gritty.

It’s a career track based on hype cycles and ageism.

My ability to get interviews at 22 even without a degree was orders of magnitude higher than it is now despite being 20x more competent.

[1]: https://www.google.com/about/careers/applications/jobs/resul...

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isaacremuant 4 days ago | parent [-]

No it isn't.

> My ability to get interviews at 22 even without a degree was orders of magnitude higher than it is now despite being 20x more competent.

Then you're doing something very wrong. Also, you may be comparing apples to oranges if you're comparing across different economic condition and seniority roles.

In any case, I think this paragraph says a lot

> He is implying rushing is bad, it’s not. Tech industry is so enamored with young people that learning Next.js and making a dog app is deemed superior than really getting into the nitty gritty.

You're maybe selling yourself poorly or in the wrong places if this is what you see. Maybe your "nitty gritty" doesn't actually solve the customers problem or, if they're solving the wrong problem you're not effective at showing them what they should solve instead and why should they hire you for it.

Norvig's point about acquired wisdom over time is great and your quips sound like a you problem.

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coolThingsFirst 4 days ago | parent [-]

> Then you're doing something very wrong.

I apply to job just like before.

>Maybe your "nitty gritty" doesn't actually solve the customers problem or,

Yes, exactly, which is why I mentioned written a dog pic sharing app in Next.js is superior to reading Knuth. The implied meritocracy doesn't exist in tech. It's filled with biased monochromatic idiots who basically have ideas like 'bad experience is worse than no experience' which is euphemism for we don't hire people older than 26.

>Norvig's point about acquired wisdom over time is great and your quips sound like a you problem.

Only in tech does experience confer a disadvantage. Even in professional sports at 40 Lebron James is still playing. In tech, at 40 you are a dinasour and your career is done and dusted for.

I have yet to see a career path more pretentious, more focused on never ending peacocking and mimicry, ageism, language-ism, unstable and filled with unoriginality of a perverse kind. Go on X to see thousands of tech people having exactly the same personality with anime pfps who magically think the same and are in never ending Nirvana because of LLMs.

	▲	isaacremuant 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		I just realized you had just 2 years of experience and are disappointed that you seemingly had more opportunities at 22 without a degree that at 26+ with one. Your self portrayal made me think of someone with ample experience. I see how, if you're not a certain age with a certain amount of experience, you may find people being unnecessarily dismissive. I understand the frustration but would say that you need to change that attitude because it's not just unhelpful but you're also wrong. If you do have passion about software you can make a good living out of it but need to sell yourself and know how to show value to customers. Age won't really matter if you are able to tell a good story. Getting the first jobs is the toughest part. Then you start understanding how. Lose social media if it gets you down. It's not an indicator of anything. Go to therapy. Find stuff where you have passion and pursue that. Nothing is guaranteed. I'm sorry you feel lied to or something but there's absolutely an amazing time to be had if you pursue and do what you love. And yes, Norvig's advice on this post is great.

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tomhow 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> ... says a lot about you. How did you ever come with that strawman?

Please don't include personal swipes like this in comments on HN. The parent's comment was needlessly dismissive, but someone else's bad comment does not justify a bad comment in reply.

	▲	isaacremuant 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		To be honest, I've lost faith in HN not being reddit like because I've seen the similar hive mind mass labeling of "wrongthink", specially when it came to covid policies, US/NATO warmongering, and advocating for what once was standard hacker culture around freedom and equality of individuals. I expect you'd propose that this is still a place where we can have the civil discussions and should not get in these flame wars so I'll try it your way for a while and see how it goes.