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throwpoaster 2 days ago

China just banned OnlyFans as degenerate, as did Sweden. We should probably be _increasing_ enforcement of public morality through private systems.

“You can just start your own payment processor.”

bavent 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Who’s morals? Yours, specifically, I’m assuming?

throwpoaster 2 days ago | parent [-]

I support the anti-porn feminists resisting the capitalist commodification of the female body, yes.

What moral system do you advocate? Laissez-faire?

bavent 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I advocate for a moral system in which each individual has total ownership of their body and can do with it and put into it what they want, for the most part. There are always edge cases, and I of course cannot account for them all, so it is more of a rule of thumb. If someone is doing something that is not hurting me or anyone else, it’s not my fucking business.

You advocate for taking ownership over women’s bodies, because clearly you know best apparently?

throwpoaster 4 hours ago | parent [-]

You advocate for the total atomization of society down to lone individuals whose sole moral precept is not to harm each other during free economic exchanges.

The game theory of this social theory is badly flawed. People who adhere to it will always serve those who form groups and enforce in-out distinctions.

Tadpole9181 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm sorry, did you just in one breathe say we need payment processors to enforce an arbitrary morality and then in the next breathe criticize laissez-faire morality?

And what if, tomorrow, the payment processors capitulate with a new morality? They decide women politicians shouldn't be allowed to take donations, for instance?

Sex workers should be better supported and the markets cleansed via strict regulation of the labor and how it's treated, and strong unions.

Payment processors making a shady porn underground using backdoor finances, even more than it already is, will do nothing but make this problem worse.

throwpoaster 17 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm not saying morality is arbitrary, no. I'm saying that commodifying human bodies is reprehensible and your advocacy for same is shameful.

Live sex work already involves existing payment processors.

Porn addicts are definitionally addicted to fantasy. I wish you luck with the rest of your comment.

bavent 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Really? Most blue collar labor essentially involves selling your body in much worse ways, taking many good years off one’s life in a lot of cases, especially compared to selling sex videos on OnlyFans, or engaging in legal, regulated, protected prostitution. It is essentially commodifying human bodies, do you have a moral issue with this as well?

throwpoaster 4 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

some_furry 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Porn addicts aren't a real thing.

There is scientific consensus on this!

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/2018...

Tadpole9181 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Shameful that I respect women as equal adults who have a right to have autonomy, and desire strict laws to guarantee their safety alongside an organization of their own labor dedicated to their fair compensation and safe, respectable treatment?

Truly, the horror!

Is infantilizing women as incapable of making their own choices better? Should we also take away their credit cards because they just can't be trusted? Yes, reductio ad absurdum, but I hope you can see the point I'm making.

You rate limit loans to mitigate harm potential, you don't ban them outright.

Most manual labor takes a toll on the body, so we make OSHA and do our best to make sure employers are minimizing how bad it gets. You don't ban manual labor.

Sex, and porn, are normal affairs. Protect the people involved and elevate the working class. Don't drive them into an even shadier, less controlled market.

Unfortunately, I'm fully aware I can't convince you.

Nasrudith 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why does "morality" enforcement always devolve into obsession with what other people do with their genitals among consenting parties and completely ignore empathy, welfare of humankind and others, or any of the inconvenient and possibly expensive "Treating people beneath you nicely?". We never see such "moralists" punishing those who do such profoundly immoral things like actively forbidding helping the homeless.

notjoemama 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Conversationally it's probably more about morality. However, for those like myself that have looked into the matter, it becomes a much needed discussion about standards of care. The AMA holds regular meetings to determine standards of care. Fortunately for us, they post these to YouTube. I looked and found the most recent meeting where they adopted standards of care for youth and gender dysphoria. It was a brief section about 1/3 to 1/2 way through the meeting. I'll recant and summarize what I observed from the dozen+ people in this meeting:

Lead speaker: Ok, next is medical transition for youth and adults. I'll admit I just don't know much on this topic so I'm reaching out for someone else to take the lead and discuss it.

pause...

Second speaker: Well, I also don't know that much as it's not my field, but I've looked over the proposal and what I can't find are long term studies on the effects. I think because of that we simply don't know...

Third speaker: Hi this is <?> and while this is also not my field I'm an ally and I can tell you what's been presented to us (the AMA governing body) from the APA is what they ave determined as effaceable procedure.

pause...

Lead speaker: So...I suppose we can take a vote to accept the guidelines sent to us from the APA.

pause...

Then they voted to accept it with no more discussion. I'm shortended the exchange, but it is not much more than what I am presenting to you.

Stop and think about that. We use the terms "standards of care" and understand that to mean there is some authoritative, intelligent, well founded judgement from what you and I assume are experts over these topics. That's not what happened by this review board in the AMA. There was no medical discussion, no weighing of prescriptive protocols, no measure of caution, or even of any medical literature regarding the topic. The American Medical Association simply accepted whatever the American Psychological Association told them was the correct medical protocols. What an abject failure.

I also recently watched a clip, a complaint about how women should not be a special case in medicine. This had to do with menopause and the complaint was that women are (to use a colloquial term) gate-kept from hormonal treatments (in this video, testosterone specifically) where as men not only have an established diagnosis of hypogonadism but that through only a 6 month trial, testosterone was approved by the FDA for treatment, but only for men. The complaint was somewhat of a feminist one, an argument for equity. If men could so easily get testosterone for treatment then why can't women, in terms of ""equity". What surprised me was the approval was only based on a 6 month trial. What of the long term exposure? What are the risks? Why approve something with so little data and medical basis? While I empathize with the video's speaker, I saw what I think is a much more problematic issue. When it comes to medicine, there appears to be less scientific truth underlying these decisions.

So, back to your point:

> what other people do with their genitals

While you may perceive some personal or moral assertion, and I acknowledge that is often true, I submit it is also true that others genitals deserve a lot more medical scrutiny than "we don't know, but someone else said this was better". Because, other people's genitals could potentially be my children's genitals and as a parent, or a grandparent, or other family member, who cares more deeply, I expect there is a factual and provably medically necessary response. If that cannot be proven, then there is no rational basis to move forward with medical treatment. The only treatment that makes sense is psychological, given the other supporting data on this topic.

throwpoaster 2 days ago | parent [-]

If there is such a thing as "sexual politics" then it is properly the domain of the state.

notjoemama 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Incorrect. Politicians defer to experts and that fails when it is shown the governing bodies (as I did above) are not performing the necessary functions to ensure safety and efficacy. Politics follows society, not preempts it.

throwpoaster 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

This is a conversation about forcing payment processors to work with immoral businesses. How is that consensual?

What moral standards do you think should be enforced? Do you think that "models" should have age verification?

nicman23 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

we have it is called bitcoin my dude.

throwpoaster 2 days ago | parent [-]

Exactly, why drag a nice clean payment processor into the muck when we already have Bitcoin?